Debunking Separation Anxiety, with Ruth Hegarty

Amy Castro (00:00.31)
Is your dog really suffering from separation anxiety or could something else be at play? Many pet owners label every unwanted behavior that happens when they're not watching their dog as separation anxiety. But what if it's not? And even worse, what if we're unknowingly creating the problem ourselves? In this episode, we'll dive into the real causes behind this misunderstood condition and explore practical steps you can take to ensure your pet feels secure when they're left alone.

Today we're unpacking the truth about separation anxiety and how to prevent it from taking hold in your pet and in your home. Stay tuned.

Amy Castro (00:39.394)
Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, Amy Castro. And today I am welcoming back to the show expert dog trainer, Ruth Hegarty. For those of you who may not know, Ruth is the founder of Creature Good Dog Training. And she has been an invaluable resource for pet owners dealing with specifically fearful and reactive dogs. Her expertise not only covers dog training, but she also knows a lot about the human side of things, which I think is very crucial in creating lasting change, because it's team effort when we're working with our dogs.

Ruth holds a master's degree in education along with numerous certifications in dog training, life coaching, and canine separation anxiety. And today she's here to share her insights on separation anxiety in dogs, which is a topic I have been wanting to do for a long time because I think it's not only increasingly relevant in our lives and as our routines continue to shift and change, our dogs are sometimes feeling the impact of that. So Ruth, thank you again for being on the show another time.

My pleasure, Amy. I had so much fun the last time I had to come back. We did. Yeah, we did have a good time. Well, think we, you know, obviously you're the expert, but I can relate to a lot of the pet parenting issues and challenges that you face. And I know one of the reasons that I wanted to do this particular episode is because I think in our society, we have a tendency to put big blankets over things and use the wrong terminology for things and self -diagnose things that we really don't know what we're talking about.

And separation anxiety, think is one of those. Anytime you go out and your dog does something unwanted, you know, everybody wants to call it separation anxiety. And it's like, to me, maybe it's your dog doesn't get any darn exercise and you're, you know, you're not giving it what it needs from a stimulation standpoint and has nothing to do with separation anxiety. So I want to separate the separation anxiety from the other stuff and help people understand it.

So how can pet owners really tell the difference between separation anxiety, especially hopefully we can catch these things early on, versus a dog that just happens to be bored or needs more exercise? Dogs are sensitive. So a lot of dogs feel a lot of stress and studies suggest maybe upwards of 80 % of dogs are experiencing some level of stress in our modern society, which could correlate with us as well.

Amy Castro (02:53.576)
But separation, true separation anxiety is a very specific type of panic disorder in dogs. It's very serious, very intense. It is treatable. So it's like anything, right? Anything emotional. There's a spectrum even within separation anxiety. So dogs will bark with separation anxiety. If your dog, when you leave it alone, freaks out.

in an unhappy way. not necessarily just chewing things up. That could be boredom. It could just be that they're, you know, they haven't learned yet what's allowed and what isn't allowed, but freaks out as if they're panicking, right? Crying, barking. I mean, I've known of dogs that will jump out a window, like break through the glass. They chew self -harm, you know, break teeth trying to get out of their crate. Really extreme, you know, vomiting, pooping themselves, that kind of stuff.

So not every case is like that, but it can be fairly obvious to you if as soon as you leave the house and the way to figure it out is set up a camera and leave, if your dog is extremely distressed. And if you think of it like, if you have a small child, you get to know the difference between they're crying because they're mad or they didn't get what they wanted and they're crying because they're quite frightened. So it's pretty intense.

It's challenging to deal with, but it is treatable. And you know, there are some ways that you can make it easier for your dog, but there's also separation. Like my own dog, Shady has separation distress. It's, she doesn't have separation anxiety. It's a milder version. She doesn't like it when I go. No dog in the history of dogs ever want you not to be next to them. So that's every dog, right?

So Shady, while I'm gone, she won't eat and she won't drink and she won't play with her toys. She sits in her safe place and waits for me. Jake, my previous dog was the same way, sits in his safe place and he would wait for me. And then when I would come back, he'd run to me, run to his water dish, gulp down some water, run back to me. So that's a much milder form. She's not happy I'm gone, but she's not panicking as though.

Amy Castro (05:19.136)
Armageddon has occurred. All right. The separation anxiety. It's, really like, you know, you left them there trap. You're never coming back. So worst thing that could happen to them. We, we being the people who study these things, not me personally, let's say scientists and researchers do not know what causes it. So you can work to prevent it. You know, if you get a puppy, you want to teach them to be comfortable staying home alone, but.

well -raised, well -bred puppy can develop separation anxiety in the same way that, you know, a street dog that had a difficult background can develop separation anxiety. So, you know, it's not your fault that it happened. It's, there's no thing that we can point to to say that's a dog that's going to head down this road. Not even like breeds. I mean, are there certain breeds that might be, and I know a lot of us have mixed breeds, but. Not to the point where you.

pointed out, right? The more sensitive a breed, maybe you could claim that they're more likely, but no, no breed has sort of risen to the top in the sense of, these guys often get it. And I've worked with a lot of mixed breeds. I mean, even doodles, I had a doodle that was, and you always think of them as so happy -go -lucky, so not really. You know, I wonder too, oftentimes when families are looking to get a new puppy, they pick the summertime to do it because

And there's a logic to that. I know even when we got our Doberman Pinscher, who we did get from a breeder, don't, don't bash me for that. Anybody that's listening. I had my reasons. If you want to hear about them, I can share. There's nothing wrong with responsibly bred dog that you got from a breeder. know, and I, and I agree. We did a whole episode on that. So I'm not opposed to it. just, I don't want, I think sometimes people pick a breed for the wrong reasons. And I had very particular reasons, but we really had to push the breeder.

to let us have him a week earlier. And I think it was like 11 weeks instead of 12 or 15 instead of 16. And it wasn't like I wanted it at five weeks or six weeks or something like that because we were gonna be off for spring break. But my point with that is, I wonder if that's, it's convenient but you still probably should make a point of not being with that puppy 24 seven. Even if just cause you're home all summer. Cause now you've gone three months.

Amy Castro (07:43.406)
With that puppy having you around 24 seven, you probably haven't gotten into routines like you would. And then school starts, everybody goes back to work and now you've got a problem on your hands. Right. Because that can just be, you've been with me my whole life since I've lived here for three months and now you're going to go away all day. You have to prepare. Now it doesn't mean your puppy's automatically going to develop separation anxiety, but you do have to teach a puppy.

how to entertain themselves, how to be not frightened when they stay home alone, how to behave when they stay home alone. Very much like we teach human children, that first time you let the kid, your little kid walk to school by themselves and you follow them from a secret distance. You have to let that happen. And if you have a small puppy, it's gonna be five minutes at first, but you want them to understand that you're not always going to be with them.

the first week, of course, they just left their mom and everything they knew. You don't have to start that right away, but you definitely want to at some point get to it. Right. So it sounds like, obviously self harm is a huge factor in it. The dog, like you said, on the lower end of the extreme that won't eat, won't drink while you're gone will only stay in one spot. What are some of the extreme examples you've seen where it's like major anxiety here versus

I just decided to eat the sofa because you left me alone. Which is more likely a boredom. So dogs who will bark the entire time you're gone is one. So you're gone for three hours, they're barking for three hours until they're hoarse. Scratching at the door to the point where they're either gouging it or, you know, breaking nails can happen. Peeing and pooping in their crate, which is not something dogs will typically do.

Licking themselves so much that you know, they've licked their fur off or chewing on themselves Trying to escape their crate or their house to the point where they are injuring themselves a lot of dogs with separation anxiety actually do Less good when they're created again. I don't really know why but oftentimes They're worse. Their symptoms are worse when they are created versus when they're not hmm. So if you when you can

Amy Castro (10:04.576)
seclude them, can dog proof one room and let them stay in there. But you know, the confinement adds to the anxiety, apparently. They also, most dogs with separation anxiety, it's advisable that you talk to your vet about medications for them. It's almost always a benefit to them, depending on how extreme, you know, when you work with a dog with separation anxiety, and there's a very specific way to work. if, if anyone thinks their dog has separation anxiety,

And you're looking for a trainer. You want to look for someone that is a certified separation anxiety trainer, because it is a very specific protocol. If a dog has separation anxiety, there's two ways that it manifests. Being home alone or being away from you. The way to treat it is to teach them to be comfortable under those conditions. So you have to treat it where it is in the home.

It can either be that the dog is home alone. So say your neighbor sat with the dog while you went out, the dog would be fine. But sometimes it's a hyper attachment to a particular individual so that if your dog is hyper attached to you, the separation from you, even if you know, their next favorite person is with them can cause the problem. Now, and you can treat them both, but some dogs, you eat first assess their threshold. How long can your dog be alone before they freak out?

And it can go anywhere from literally zero time, the minute you start to walk towards the door, your dog reeks out. Or I talked to someone recently that said my dog has separation anxiety and they had gotten their dog up to 12 minutes before the dog would start to cry or bark.

To me, I hear 12 minutes, I'm like, that's really awesome. So. Except if you have to go to work for eight hours, then you got a long way to go. It is a very serious thing to deal with. It is highly treatable. So it's interesting to me because I do that work and I do work with reactive dogs. I'm more likely to cure quote unquote, dog with separation anxiety than I am to cure a dog that's dog reactive. They'll get better.

Amy Castro (12:19.906)
But they're probably never going to be a dog park guy. Whereas you can get your dog with separation anxiety to the point where rule of thumb, always recommend don't leave your dog alone for more than four hours. Four hours is the max. So if you have a, if you work every day, if you're a nine to five or you have a dog walker come, so it doesn't mean you have to have a dog walker come to let them out. So that, that's a good rule. you, you, there's going to be exceptions where you're something happy or plain as late and your dog was home alone for six or eight hours.

It happens, but that's sort of what the goal is. So you can get a dog with separation. might take a while, you know, and it could take anywhere from a few months to a few years, but you, can get them to that point where you can go to dinner and a movie or go to work and have a dog walker come kind of thing. Yeah. The point that you made, it's like stuck in my head about the, I had never even really thought about the fact of being able to test that theory with, especially if it's somebody your dog already knows.

Having that person stay with your dog and see does it have the reaction? is it about being without you or is it about being without human contact? And that would be, I think, a huge and important distinction to be able to make. Yes. More often than not, in my experience, so I don't know statistically overall, but in my experience, it's more about being alone than about being attached to a particular person. But that can happen. That can happen. My former dog, Jake, he

If I was home, he wouldn't leave the house. If I wasn't home, he'd leave the house with a total stranger. So if I was home and my nephew or dog walker came to walk him, he's like, why would I go anywhere? Mommy's right there. So, but if I wasn't home, he'd be like, great. Some guy time. So that now he didn't have separation anxiety, but he did have a hyper attachment to me as does shadow.

But again, she doesn't really have separation anxiety. She has separation distress. There's a much milder version. She doesn't need treatment. Right. I want to ask you about the crates and the space because my dog Jack, the same Doberman Pinscher developed very late in life. I attribute it to the radiation he had from cancer. He was like hypersensitive to storms to the point where one time we were going to the beach.

Amy Castro (14:40.522)
And as we got like halfway there, the weather turned bad and we were like, okay, we're just going to turn around and go back. And by the time we got back and he was always fine in his crate, he had torn out of his crate, you know, bloody mouth, ripped down a lamp. He didn't swallow light bulb, but he definitely bit light bulb and there was broken light bulb and he had blood all in his mouth and he, you know, chewed on the coffee table and did all kinds of crazy things that he never, never did before.

And so I was always very much afraid after that. Well, I've never been one to leave my dogs loose because it just seems like a dog in my experience. Maybe I just have difficult dogs, but I can leave a dog loose for three years and they wouldn't touch that. Blada blada, bing bang on the table on that one day they would decide today is the day we're going to destroy that just like out of the blue. And so it's always to me been safer. And especially when I've had multiple dogs, I don't want to worry about somebody getting into it over a toy or.

picking on somebody. So everybody goes on their crates. But with Jack, once that we had that situation with him tearing out of his crate, then it was very, very hard to keep him in that wire crate. And I was too afraid to leave him loose because of his size and because of the damage that he'd done to himself. So we ended up going to an airline crate, like one of the more closed in ones. And he was fine after that. Number one, cause I'm sure it was harder to grab ahold of the wire and rip things open. But I think he just maybe felt a little more secure.

because it was more closed in and we used to put a blanket over the top of it, not closing the front, but just to kind of give the, little sound insulation too. And never had a problem afterwards with him with the crate. So. Yeah, I've seen that kind of thing happen. So dogs are sensitive to the barometric pressure. can feel like a smell of storm coming, but a traumatic experience, right? Radiation can be traumatic for people. And then you add the level for the dog of not understanding what it is. Yeah.

So it, or why it's happening. So you can't always engineer what a dog's going to associate one thing to another. And the crate to him, the crate, maybe he felt he didn't feel well. He associated with the crate or maybe, you know, if he felt confined at the doctor's office, then the confinement was a problem for him. And there is a difference between a wire, your traditional wire crate.

Amy Castro (17:03.136)
And something with non -see -through size and some, you know, could be to some degree the newness, but also the lack of visible stimuli. So yeah, there's a lot of as well. yeah. And sometimes you can sort of figure it out and sometimes you're never going to figure it out. I don't create my dogs. did. I created Jake in the beginning and I have once or twice been burned by the, never did that before.

but I have a small apartment and big dogs. And so I just tend not to bother. I have a travel crate for emergencies. And I've left mine loose, you know, and gotten away with it. I guess that just sometimes it's just, especially if I know I'm going to be gone for a while or, and you know, we have fosters coming and going and we've got cats moseying through and I don't want anyone to decide, hey, that cat looks tasty today. absolutely.

I've always had one dog at a time. So I would say, especially if you're not 100 % certain of any individual's behavior, that creating when they're unsupervised is a good idea. Alternatives to creating too is baby gating them or behind a closed door into a particular room. You know, everyone, this is your room, this is your room. And that one area is dog proof or cat proof. And there's a lot of different ways to do it. And crate or no crate, it's not a better or worse scenario. It's what works.

for you. I call that a parenting decision, right? I have good guardianship, good citizen, good dog owner, things like these are things you must provide or must do. And then there's the parenting choices on the furniture, off the furniture, crate, no crate, people food, no people food. You know, a lot of those things, how many cues do you need them to learn? that's individual choices. That's a good point. So if I suspect

that I've got a dog that has separation anxiety or I've seen some of these behaviors that you're referencing. What would be the first steps I should take at that point? So I, for any kind of dog issue, I would intervene sooner rather than later. So any sudden change in dog behavior should be of concern. And first thing to do is rule out illness.

Amy Castro (19:19.436)
because illness and pain can result in sudden changes in behavior. All of a sudden an adult dog peeing in the house, all of a sudden a dog being more clingy or, you know, guarding a toy. So that's the thing you want to rule out right away. The second reason why you want to address it right away, mean, for separation anxiety in particular, your dog is suffering, so you'd want to address it sooner, but also on a practical sense, it's going to be easier.

to address a problem that's been going on for three to six months, then a problem that's been going on for three to six years. You're starting from behind because dogs behave in ways that they've always behaved in. And if barking and screaming and chewing when you're gone is how I'm soothing myself because I'm so traumatized, you've left me alone.

The more I do that, the more likely I am to do that. intervening sooner is going to make it easier to solve the problem for one. And it's going to long -term, it's going to be less traumatizing for your dog. Now, obviously you might not realize what's happening at first. So I'm not, you know, no judgment. You might not know, you might be like, I don't know, maybe something happened. And that's why my dog is acting this way. Maybe there was.

You know, the neighbors threw a party and so she cried or, know, you just don't always know. At the same time, because I am kind of judgy, will admit. And maybe it's because I'm on the receiving end of the phone calls of people who were like, I need to surrender my dog by Friday. And you're like, why? Well, he's been, you know, and then you find out it's been going on for a long time and they ignored it or they've not bothered to deal with it. And sometimes I just want to say, well,

How is it that you think I'm going to now turn around and just like make that somebody else's problem, you know, that they're going to have to deal with when you've not been willing, you know, if you've not been willing to do anything about it, what makes you think I'm going to be able to find somebody who is? And when you start asking, well, have you done this? Have you tried that? Have you consulted a trainer? No, they haven't done anything. Or they haven't given it any time to see if it's just simply an adjustment thing. You know, I've had people say, I need to surrender this dog because I can't give it the time it needs. And it's like, well, what do you mean by that? Well,

Amy Castro (21:40.014)
You know, I've had the dog for two weeks and every day when I go to work and I come home, you know, in the evening, it's done this. And it's like, well, okay. That was probably a poor choice on your part to get a dog when you work those, you know, 12 hour shifts and you bring home a completely strange dog that doesn't know you, you don't know him, her, whatever. And you're just going to like, leave it alone. Modern people can be quite impulsive. And, and so, yeah, I have seen that happen too. And.

I still try not to judge people. So now when people reach out to me, they're reaching out for help. Then that's a good thing. Right. So when they're reaching out for you and I hear all kinds of stories about, you know, someone went through the process of adopting a dog and three days later they want to bring them back. And I mean, yes, okay, that can happen. But I would like to imagine that's rarer than it actually is. I know the reality, but one of my dreams for the world is that

head ownership education is commonplace in the same way. You know, we, talk about how kids aren't taught to balance a checkbook in high school. Like there should be a finance semester or whatever. You know, maybe there should also be, if you're ever, know, how we do when I was young, now I'm going to age myself, but when I was young, still had, soon as you said checkbook, you aged yourself. enough. Fair enough. I still have one. I still have one.

I do bank online, but I mean, I still had a home economics when I was in high school and I don't think that's a bad thing. Now we don't necessarily have to teach the boys to build stools and the girls to sew dresses. don't have to do it like that, but there's nothing wrong with teaching a little bit about money and responsibility if you're thinking about getting a pet. And these are things that I.

are seen as minor things, but are actually really major things. know, studies have shown that children in school systems where they dissect real frogs, people come out with less compassion. And in school systems where they, you know, have the, the rubber ones, the pretend ones that they dissect, we can teach people to be more compassionate. Children that learn to be nice to animals when they're younger, grow up.

Amy Castro (24:02.606)
to be, I'm just going to say better people. Yeah, no. There is a correlation. It's not just me wanting people to be good dog moms and dads. Yeah. You know, it'd be interesting if somebody out there, smarter than me, needs to invent, you know how they have those, they'll saddle some high school kids with a fake baby that they've got to carry 24 -7. my gosh. A pretend dog. discourage them. Yeah, a pretend dog.

that you have to basically keep alive for a month and then if you're ready for that responsible pet ownership. Yes. There's a lot, you know, and I will, you know, in giving grace, I do give grace sometimes, you know, with people, you know, out of, out of, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And so, you know, all, know, you either do what you think is right and it's maybe not species appropriate, or you do what you learned growing up. This is what we did with dogs. It's like the people that, you know,

automatically declaw cats because don't do that. you do, you declaw your cats. And then after some education, they're like, Ooh, I don't need to do that. know, right. did not realize I just chopped off half his finger. Yeah, I agree. And I'm not trying to throw shade on humans. We may, made so many mistakes with my first dog. I look back and I'm like, what was I thinking? Yeah. I've made mistakes with this dog because she's so different than any dog I've ever met.

Yeah. You know, we make different mistakes with our children. make mistakes with our work. That's part of life. I think it's more not that, you know, we have to be perfect. We can't make mistakes, but I think it's, it's a perspective, you know, and I've had, had, I think I'm not going to say names, but I'm thinking of a client in particular that hired me to work with their dog who was very feisty. And I said, well, you know, this, was purebred dog. And they said,

It's a breed. Yeah, it's a breed. It's kind of a breed characteristic of this dog. And, and they were like, you know, we probably should have researched the breed a little. They're so cute. We wanted one. And I was like, I get that. But now you have one. And so this is what, you know, and they would have probably been better off getting a golden or something like that, but they just had it and it was a doodle type dog.

Amy Castro (26:16.92)
which they can be feisty. And I'm sure I've made decisions where I didn't think it through also. it's not, know, you should have put more thought into that. It's like, oops, you know, you thought you thought about the things that were important. And, you know, I'm the first one to say you can't plan for things you didn't know you had to plan for. Like you don't know what you don't know. Right.

But one of the things that we want to stress on this show is that once you've made that commitment to an animal, know, the next step is taking action. And so I guess what I would want to know is, and you've already given some of these hints as far as, getting puppies used to being left alone, doing it in small segments of time, having the camera set up to look at the reactions. But, you know, what are some other things that, like, I know for my dogs, the root, you know, they're crates.

which is where they go when we leave and they also sleep in there at night. They go in there, I mean, the doors are always open, they get fed in there and they're probably, half of them are laying in there right now and the other half are on my chair. But, you know, it's like, so when I get ready to leave and I say houses, everybody goes to their individual place and then I just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, around and shut the doors.

Nobody's, I don't have to drag anybody in because that's what they're used to. So getting them used to that, putting their food in the crate when they're, when they're little. So that's their, their safe space. That's where their bed is. That's where their good toys are, that kind of thing. What are some other things that pet parents can do on their own? And I think it seems relatively obvious, but at what point is it like, okay, I really need to have a professional intervention. like, prevention or dealing with the lower level stuff. And then when do I realize I'm out of my depth?

Oftentimes people are unaware, right? Because you leave the house and you hear your dog barking, but you're like, some dogs bark for a couple of minutes and then they stop. Oftentimes people don't find out their dog has separation anxiety because none of the extreme things have happened. Right? They come home and the dog seems fine. Maybe they're a little hyper, but you attribute that to, well, I've been away. Oftentimes it's the neighbors. You know, if you live in an apartment building, neighbors are going to complain. You were gone for four hours. Your dog literally barked for four hours.

Amy Castro (28:31.842)
because that can happen. Or you see the signs, your dog seems distressed. They're panting too much. They're drooling too much. They seem like they've somehow got so upset. made themselves ill. But I would say that if you have a dog that you're curious, even if you think your dog is fine, no harm. And the next time you're going out, you know, set up your phone or your zoom or whatever it is.

Focus it more towards the door area because most of these dogs will go to the door to cry. You just left out of it. And so you get the audio, if they're not right, you know, right in the camera view, you can hear them or barking. If they cry for a long time, they cry till you come back. If they seem very upset, then start to think, well, maybe my dog does have separation anxiety. And if you think your dog does contact.

a certified separation anxiety trainer, you can Google for them or Julie Naismith, which is the school that I went to, she has a list, like a find a trainer and reach out to someone. One thing I will do for anyone that reaches out to me saying, I think my dog has separation anxiety, is I'll say, I'll have a free consult, ask questions. I'm not, sometimes I could be like, no, that's not what that is. It's this.

If it sounds like, maybe they do. I'll say, send me a video. You know, it can be one minute. don't have to leave your dog alone to traumatize them for a long time just to show me 30 seconds, whatever. Send that to me and I can watch it I can let you know with a reasonable amount of certainty. Whether or not your dog has separation anxiety, just based on what they're doing. And then from there, you can say, you should address this. There are a couple of books, Julie Naismith.

Again, obviously I think she's great because I went to her school. She has a book. The other person's name is something very much like Marlena de Martinez or de Martini, something very similar to that. So, you know, that's more of a style of reading. You know, who do you think is more interesting writer? They both have books. both have programs. They both have lists of find a trainer type things. Definitely work with someone who knows what they're doing. Yeah.

Amy Castro (30:49.57)
That's yeah, that is important. Cause like you said, there's so many different training techniques and you don't want to make the situation or pay a lot of money for something that's not going to resolve the issue. And training's an unregulated field. So all certifications of voluntary certifications. So you want someone who is committed to that level where they're spending their money to take trainings and get certifications and respecting the work. Right. Okay.

So, so as far as any kind of like tools or equipment, cause one thing that came to mind, cause I've heard of people using this is I leave the house, my dog barks a lot. I can't have my neighbors complaining. So I got a bark collar and that fixed everything. I, know, I don't know if that's true or not, but you know, to me, if that fixed everything, then it probably wasn't separation anxiety, but things like thunder shirts or other things to any of those kinds, you you mentioned going to your, to your vet.

for medication and that's a tool. So that's a tool. So bark collars are an aversive tool. They're punishment based. Right. They stop the barking because they're either causing, sometimes they cause a very high pitched noise that hurts their ears. Sometimes they spray citronella in their face, unpleasant. So they stop the barking because the barking leads to punishment. It doesn't solve the problem. Right.

problem, the energy of the fear is going to go somewhere. So I do not recommend those under any circumstances. You know, maybe temporarily, if you're going to lose your housing over it, you know, there might be extreme circumstances where, you know, never say never, right? So there might be extreme circumstances where the dog and I are going to be homeless. So I'm going to do this for a week until the trainer can get, you know, that kind of thing. Ideally, you wouldn't have to resort to that. So I don't recommend that. Thunder shirts.

Hen work even like a tight t -shirt, you know, like a child's t -shirt. That's kind of snug on your dog the hugging, you know, like weighted blankets It's they work under the same theory as weighted blankets and they're either gonna work or they're not gonna work You'll either know they're working because they're helping or they're not working So if you're try one buy it from somewhere that will take it back. There's also dog appeasing pheromones, which are manufactured pheromones that replicate

Amy Castro (33:14.624)
a mother dogs so that that's supposed to be calming for dogs. There's not a lot of scientific, you know, straight scientific research that these things work, but they might, you know, it's kind of the same as CBD, right? There's not scientific, truly scientific research on whether or not CBD works. People swear by it or people say it doesn't. So

You know, that sort of something that kind of a lifestyle type of issue, either are into that kind of stuff or you're not. like essential oils. I do find them helpful. And there are some that are beneficial for dogs. My last newsletter was actually about this vanilla and Valerian. Like some of them help dogs sleep. use them myself to help me sleep. So if you're into that sort of thing, that's definitely worth a try. Do your research. There are some essential oils that are toxic.

to dogs and different ones that are toxic to cats. you want to definitely look them up, make sure you're using them correctly. Never eat them, never put them directly on skin, always dilute them, which is why I say if you're into that thing, you're probably going to know these things. What about the calming collars that just came to mind because I was cleaning out our dog room the other day and we had some expired calming collars. Yeah. they had in them, that's another one. It's, it's going to work for some dogs and not work for other dogs.

And you have to experiment. It sounds like yes. What's going to work for your dog. None of these things are going to cure your dog's problem. They might take the edge off, right? Medication is not going to cure it either. It's going to take the edge off. Just like with people, you know, if you, somebody has anxiety and they get medication, pressure medication from their doctor, it's not a panacea. They're still going to probably want to.

Maybe get some therapy or take a yoga class or, whatever. Again, a lot of this kind of falls under people's belief strategies, as to what kind of stuff they think is going to be beneficial to them. Meditation or therapy, you know, whatever works. you have to be at a distasteful event, makes it little more tolerable. Right. Exactly. So, you know, some coping, that's the word I was trying to come up with, like these coping strategies, you know, everyone kind of has their idea of what is legit and what isn't.

Amy Castro (35:34.818)
But it's like for the dogs, the medicine isn't going to be a one shot cure. It's going to help take the edge off so that your dog can learn what you're trying to teach them. And the same with the other things, know, a common color on every appendage. And if it's going to help, it's going to help a little so that your dog isn't so amped up that they can't follow the training.

So it's, it's definitely, and the training consists of very incremental absences. There's different formulas that we use to figure it out. You get the dog's threshold, whether that's two seconds or, you know, 10 minutes, and then you incrementally work it up. The hardest part for people is that until their dog gets to a successful point, ideally you'll want to suspend your absences.

And it's challenging for people to figure out a way for their dog never to be alone. You know, are you going to put them in daycare or if you're lucky you work from home, but it, you know, and one thing I always say to clients is in a perfect world, here's what you do. Right. How close can you get to that? You tell me what, what can you do in your realistic life? Like you can't, you know, not pay your mortgage because you haven't worked because you're staying home with your dog.

Doggy daycare is an alternative, but that's not going to solve your separation anxiety. but not leaving the dog alone while you're teaching the dog that being alone isn't traumatizing is going to help the work because on the days you're practicing and the dog's having a positive experience of being alone and the next day they're home alone for eight hours and you're not practicing it's

just such a message. So that that's why it's not that that's going to cure them at all. It's just going to keep them from being alone. And the only times they're alone or under supervised scenario where you're working with them to show them that nothing terrible is going to happen when they're alone. Right. Hey, I did have one quick question. I've always thought that if you make a big deal when you leave and you make a big deal when you come back,

Amy Castro (37:46.178)
that all you're doing is drawing attention that you're leaving and coming back. Is that, am I wrong on that or? No, there are. that part of the process is to. That's, there's two schools of thought. Some trainers will say, just slip out the back door. Don't even say goodbye. When you come in, don't act excited. Just come in as if your dog's not there. I personally do not do that. I have a particular phrase that I'm not going to say out loud that I use when I'm letting my dog know that I'm leaving and she's not coming with me.

And she goes to her safe place. But when I come home, I let her jump all over me. She's excited to see me. I'm excited to see her. And so I think there are different trainer beliefs about that. So you can maybe try to match your trainer's beliefs with some of your own. what do know, how do you feel? Do you, I want my dog to be happy to see me when I come home, I'm happy to see her. You know, when I would go visit my nephews, they were excited to see me. And I love that feeling.

So, and I love that feeling to a certain degree, but at the same time for me, even like they're excited to see me when I come out of my bedroom in the morning and it's like, I'm not, my eyes aren't even open yet. I can't have you're like ramming into my knees and you know, you're barking and you're spilling my coffee and it's like, know, and, you're coming in the front door and you're wearing your dress clothes from work and now everybody's leaving white dog hair on your black pants. So I'm kind of the opposite, like on an emotional level, I

think it's cool that they're happy to see me, but I don't need that level of excitement. So there's a middle ground door. So that's a good point. There's a middle ground figure out what works for you where you, you know, let's say with the, get fur and you could come in and have your dogs run out, but not jump on you. Maybe they all run out and sit and everybody gets a treat because you keep treats stashed by the front door. You know, I have a gate so that I have to move the gate to come in. So.

You know, I, if I wanted, just opened the gate. jumps on me and we're like, it's so happy to see you. I miss you so much. If I wanted, I could have her calm down and sit and teach her that, you know, you, you can't jump on me. So there is a middle ground. It's not, you don't have to pick an extreme. Yeah. And I found that like, cause sometimes there's somebody home and so the dogs are loose and so that's a different ball of wax. But if nobody's home and everybody's in their crates.

Amy Castro (40:06.382)
I don't go in my business clothes with my purse and all my bags still on my shoulder and start opening crates. I go back to my room, I change, out. And then everybody, you can be all excited and I'll be excited to see you too. And that kind of thing. I am a very laid back dog parent. I let my dog get away with things that I tell clients. shouldn't let them do that. Yeah. Because I'm just a very laissez faire. And it's just me and the dog in my household.

So I don't have to accommodate anybody else. She sleeps in my bed. She sits on my couch. I, you know, I share my food. So I wouldn't do that if other adults or if there were child, like I would have different rules. So yeah, different boundaries. Right. Everyone, you know, gets to make those choices, just like we do with our human children where, know, some kids get the iPhone when they're six, some kids have to wait till they're 13 or, know, whatever it is. So a lot of that again, goes back to.

is somewhat parenting. But if you're having an issue with your dog being over excited when you come in, it can help them for you to come in nonchalant. Right. So there is a basis to that advice where if you come in and act excited and they're all amped up and jumping on you and they can't contain themselves. And it does help them. When I work with other people's dogs about, you know, guest greetings,

And I'm the guest and we're practicing what we've taught the dog how to politely greet. come in and I'm as boring as I possibly can. don't look at the dog. I don't move my arm to make it easier for them to practice the behavior. You know, and then you work it up to coming in like a normal person would come in and say hello or what have you. So there is a basis to that advice. I just don't. It's not advice I give unless I think it will really help. It's not my go -to piece of advice.

Yeah, I just, yeah, I always felt like it was kind of mean to create excitement and then be angry at them because they're excited. Like I'm excited to see you. And it's like, now I want you to stop. But it's like, but now you've gotten me all ramped up and then you're going to yell at them to stop jumping. And it's like, that's, that's not very nice. No, it isn't. I agree with you a hundred percent on that. I don't, I don't do that second part. I come in and she's excited. I'm like, and she'll jump on me and then she'll smell and I'm like, and this is Dobby that I saw at 10. And this is, she likes to smell the different dogs on me.

Amy Castro (42:30.968)
And then if I've stopped and brought us a treat, I'm like, look in the bag, don't touch it though. You know, like we have a whole thing. Yeah. So is there a, just to kind of, to close out on a good story, do you have a good story that you'd want to share about, you know, a transformation from a dog that had separation anxiety to

And again, maybe it's not a cure, but to being able to live a balanced life, I guess I'd say. So yeah, I mean, I've had a couple I've worked with. It's not the bulk of my business reactivity is, but I've worked with enough of them over the years. And several of them have gotten to the point where, you know, they've reached that four hour mark and the humans can live a normal life. And, you know, this is going to sound like, of course you say that you're the teacher.

But the dogs that get to that point are the dogs that the people put in the time and effort to work with them and to set them up for success and, you know, learn about the issue, whether they are doing it DIY because they read the book or they're working with someone's, don't, you know, if you're going to hire a trainer, hire a certified person, you, you don't have to hire a trainer. You can read the book.

There are online programs that you can take. So there's a range of ways that you can approach it. But yes, dogs can be cured, so to speak, so that you can live a normal life. Absolutely. And I think that's so key. What you said though, too, is that it doesn't matter whether you DIY it or whether you hire the most expensive. I'm going to hire the worldwide expert on separation anxiety and pay all this money. They're not going to stay at your house 24 seven doing the work for you. You're going to have to do it's like.

You my piano teacher could always tell whether I practiced or not. You you can't just, you can't just show up at your lesson and think you're going to pull it off. And it's the same thing with, with dog training. mean, it's the daily. Yes. Putting in the time. Yeah. It's so important. you can, know, you can put in 20, 30 minutes. You don't have to dedicate your life to training your dog. You can put in less time than people often think. And it's going to.

Amy Castro (44:48.302)
be a challenge for a certain amount of time, especially if you're suspending absences. But when you think long -term, so if I spend, you know, these few months or even this whole entire year, not leaving my dog alone, then I'm going to have the next 10, 15 years with this dog, however much longer they have not having to do that and not feeling guilty when I go have drinks with a friend and the rewards are worth the investment of your time and energy to do the work.

Yeah, it's a season in a lifetime is what it is. Like college or, know, anything that we kind having a new human baby and you're not getting any sleep. It's like, you it will end. Right. Exactly. It's, sometimes the grind is worth the reward. Right. So Ruth, thank you so much for all of this information. I learned a whole lot today. yay! I thought I kind of knew about separation anxiety, but I think you know, some major points in there about the difference I think was so huge.

for me personally and hopefully for our listeners as well. So thank you for your wisdom and your experience and your practical advice. We really appreciate having you on the show again. My pleasure. I always have fun with you. Well, we're going to do more too. think we have at least one other idea of our sleep. we'll get cranking that one pretty soon as well. But thank you also to everybody for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk and we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to Starlight Pet Talk.

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