What to Expect When Going to the Emergency Vet

Season 1 Episode 28 In Case of Emergency: What to do, know, and expect at the emergency vet

[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents learn everything they need to know to have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet. So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk. Rescue, adoption, and pet parenting done right.

[00:00:25] Host - Amy Castro: If you're a fan of Starlight Pet Talk, you'll love our new line of merchandise. We have t shirts, hoodies, and more all featuring your favorite podcast logos and designs. Plus, we're offering a limited number of Starlight Outreach and Rescue items where a portion of the proceeds go directly to Animal Rescue.

[00:00:41] Host - Amy Castro: Our merchandise is the perfect way to show your support for your favorite pet podcast and Animal Rescue at the same time. So what are you waiting for? Just visit our website at www. starlightpettalk. com to order your merchandise today. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, Amy Castro. And when our pets get sick or hurt, it's a stressful time for everyone.

[00:01:03] Host - Amy Castro: And if you're like me, it seems like it always happens on a weekend or you know, a Friday night when the veterinarian's office is closed. Mm-hmm. . So maybe it's just me, but that's kind of seems how it happens. So then you have a choice to make. You have to make the decision, am I gonna wait till Monday and see how things go?

[00:01:21] Host - Amy Castro: Or am I gonna make a trip to our friends at the emergency veterinarian's office, which just so happens we have an emergency veterinarian here with us today. So Tyler Sugarman McGiffin worked as a veterinary assistant and a technician for 15 years before going to vet school, which I think is awesome because like that's the best experience, right?

[00:01:40] Host - Amy Castro: After he completed his undergraduate work in 2010, he attended Western University of Sciences. Where he graduated with his doctorate in veterinary medicine in 2015. He completed his internship at Inland Valley Veterinary Specialists where he wrote a research paper. Now, I thought this was fascinating because I just had a conversation the other day with one of my veterinary clients.

[00:01:59] Host - Amy Castro: So the research paper was called Client's Attitudes Toward Veterinary Attire. Which was published in the Journal of American Veterinary Medical Association in July of 2018. So we need to talk about that later on. Laughter. After his internship, he started working as an overnight emergency veterinarian, where he's enjoyed teaching the technicians and veterinary students who rotate through.

[00:02:20] Host - Amy Castro: And I think this is so cool. He actually started a podcast for his technicians to help them learn more about the diseases that they treat. And then. Didn't have enough in the podcasting world because we love our podcast. Exactly. We started a second podcast and I love the title, Vetsplanation, to help inform pet parents to understand diseases and treatments to keep their pets happy, healthy, and loved, which is everything that we want here at Starlight Pet Talk.

[00:02:44] Host - Amy Castro: Tyler, thank you so much for being here with me today. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you 

[00:02:48] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: so much, Amy. I really appreciate you having me on and I love what you do, just helping other pets, parents and other pets. Um, so I really appreciate you letting me be on here. 

[00:02:57] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah, it's what I live for, for sure. So it's funny.

[00:03:00] Host - Amy Castro: My cousin Eric is an emergency veterinarian and I never asked him this question up in Maine, but I'm going to ask you. So yeah, my first thought about emergency veterinarian is. It's stress and working overnight and you know, why would anyone want to do that? But what's so great about being an emergency veterinarian that you still do it?

[00:03:18] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Absolutely. It is very stressful and I am the only veterinarian on overnight. So it's really even more stressful because you're the only person handling all the cases, right? But that's why I like to do it is because I like to be there for the pet owners and the pet parents. They don't have anybody else, right?

[00:03:34] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: You can't call your regular veterinarian and have them come in at 3 a. m. in most situations. It used to be that way, but not anymore. Right? So that's what I like. I like having to be there for those pet parents when they don't have somebody else. I also just like the thrill of it too. You know, I enjoy.

[00:03:52] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Bringing animals back from almost death's door. I feel like that's really rewarding. And also just having the pet parents being so happy that they were able to take their pet home. Or even in the situations when they're unfortunately have to put their pet to sleep at night. And again, nobody is around.

[00:04:08] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: They can't call their regular veterinarian and just having them being able to come into us to be able to do that in a very peaceful way so that they don't have to watch them suffer at home. So, two sides of the coin there. I like having them go home, and I also like being there for the ones that unfortunately have to go home without their pets.

[00:04:25] Host - Amy Castro: Right. Yeah, I mean, it's such a valuable service on so many different levels, and you know, having been in that situation both with my personal pets and with... Rescue pets when maybe an emergency vet wasn't an option based on where you are. It's a horrible situation to find yourself in and so it's, it's great that there are people like you doing that.

[00:04:40] Host - Amy Castro: So how is being an emergency vet kind of different other than the fact that, yes, it's an emergency situation where nobody's got an appointment. How else is it different than general practice, would you say, or maybe even specifically from the client's perspective? Yeah, 

[00:04:55] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: absolutely. Um, well, real quick too, there are emergency vets who do work during the day.

[00:04:59] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: It's like there are 24 hour clinics, right, that have emergency vets. Yeah. So they do have emergency vets during the day as well. But, um, you know, from the client's perspective, I think that some of the big differences are like one, like you had mentioned, they don't have an appointment. Like, it's very much like a human ER.

[00:05:14] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: If you walk in there, it's based off of triage. You know, it means that whomever is the one that is the worst pet off, the one that is closest to death is the one that's going to come first, right? Which I know that can be a really hard thing for people because they see that their pet is... suffering or their pet is hurt or the pet is really sick, and it's hard to know that somebody else's pet is actually a little bit sicker, and that's why they have to go first.

[00:05:36] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So I think that is one really hard thing for the clients to have to see is just that their pet is sick. But also from the client's perspective, some of the other differences are going to be, you know, where they're going to be waiting. A lot of times they're going to be going into either their car to wait because vet clinics are notorious for being cold.

[00:05:56] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: I don't know why. But also, they're waiting in the waiting room with all the other pets that are there, and there could be a full house. Like, usually with my clinic, it's pretty full every time I work. If you walk out in the waiting room, it's a very full clinic, which also means, you know, that you have cats next to dogs that are barking and.

[00:06:16] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: It can be a really stressful situation. So sometimes just having the cats and stuff out in their car, where there's no barking dogs, I think that's a really big thing as well. And then also some of the other things are like usually the veterinary, the ER vets, we do a lot of our stuff in house. We don't have to send a lot of our stuff out.

[00:06:30] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So if we're doing blood work, that's usually done in house. It's done within an hour. You know, x rays, we usually do them in house, and most of the time we're able to read them. Sometimes we have to send them out, but... Even then we get them back pretty quickly. Yeah, so a lot of the stuff that we do is things that are right there, rather than with general.

[00:06:48] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: A lot of times you do have to send out the blood work. 

[00:06:52] Host - Amy Castro: Right. Yes. And that just kind of increases the waiting game. Yes, 

[00:06:56] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: exactly. Exactly. That's another big thing is knowing it's going to be a wait. Since COVID, there's really been a lot more people who have gotten pets. And so we have been quite overloaded.

[00:07:07] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: You know, the wait times are not as bad as what they were. They used to be like 12 to 24 hours. And now it's down to like four to six hours. So 

[00:07:15] Host - Amy Castro: that's quite an improvement for sure. Yeah. So if I'm hemming and hawing about, do I want to go sit there for four to six hours? Yeah, and I don't expect that you're gonna be, you know, giving too specific advice because obviously every case is different and there's more than meets the eye in a podcast conversation.

[00:07:32] Host - Amy Castro: But can you give us kind of some general guidelines as to, and I ask this because I have people that will call me having already gone to the emergency vet and it's like Man, I could have told you. You could have waited until Monday. I mean, no offense, we don't want to take money out of your pocket. But, you know, how does somebody know if they really need to go to the emergency vet?

[00:07:53] Host - Amy Castro: Or whether it can wait until they can get into their regular veterinarian. Yeah, 

[00:07:57] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: I think there's a couple of things with that. I mean, one thing I will say about waiting to get into your regular veterinarian is sometimes they're not, even if they're open on Monday, they may not be able to take you that day, you know, maybe a couple of days later.

[00:08:09] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: But a lot of times, like I tell people, if it's not something that's life threatening, like if they're limping, it's probably not a life threatening thing that probably is something that can wait. If it's a chronic disease that you're just wanting to get rechecked, that's again, probably something that can wait to see your regular veterinarian.

[00:08:25] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Things like when they just want refills on medications again, probably something that you can even call your regular veterinarian on Monday and say, can I get a refill for. a couple of days until I can get into the appointment with you. So it's really going to be things that are more life threatening things that should come in, or things that are for pets that are really sick, pets that you think might have eaten an object, like some sort of foreign body.

[00:08:46] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Those are usually the ones that we want to get in sooner because we don't want those to wait. You know, cats that aren't eating, those are a really good one to come in, because unfortunately cats cannot withstand being without food for more than a couple of days versus dogs that could be like a week, two weeks in there.

[00:09:00] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Um, So those kinds of things are the ones that we want to come in immediately. Traumas. Obviously those are definitely ones that want to come in immediately. I actually tell people if you would go to the emergency hospital for it, then you should bring your pet in for the emergency hospital. 

[00:09:14] Host - Amy Castro: Or if you take your child to the emergency room for it.

[00:09:17] Host - Amy Castro: You probably. Exactly, exactly. Luckily, I've not had a lot of, uh, emergency vet visits, but I do have one of my, one of my quote unquote favorite ones was literally on Thanksgiving. I go to let my dogs in and my little dog buddy had blue stuff all over his mouth. And I'm like, what did he get into? And my husband had been at his dear lease and had rat poison in the garbage bag that he had gotten into.

[00:09:41] Host - Amy Castro: So now all dogs have to be taken to the emergency room because I don't know who's eating it. You don't know who did it, exactly. Everybody was fine, but yeah, that was not, not a nice Thanksgiving. 

[00:09:50] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Right. Well, I'm glad everybody was okay. 

[00:09:54] Host - Amy Castro: Yes, yes, that was a good thing. So what do you think are some of the things that people are most either surprised about or maybe surprised isn't the best word, or unprepared for when they go to the emergency vet?

[00:10:05] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Yeah, I say the two biggest things are always one, the wait time, like they just are not prepared for that long of a wait. But the second one is finances, you know, nobody really prepares 5, 000 surgery. So I think that money is always a big one that can upset people. And, you know, one big thing about that is just.

[00:10:25] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: One, if you could prepare beforehand, great, getting pet insurance or doing things like having some money saved away specifically for that pet. I've had somebody who got a bulldog that he was like, I already know it's going to be a 10, 000 dog. I've already put money away in a savings account for it. And I was like, that's fantastic.

[00:10:40] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Nobody does that. Yeah, but other things too are just gonna be like knowing how to talk to the veterinarian about your other options. So a lot of times I will tell people of two or three options of what they can do. You know, maybe it's that we can either treat with, you know, the gold standard of what we're gonna do.

[00:10:59] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Which is going to be diagnostics of blood work and x rays, plus doing these certain medications, maybe a CT scan, you know, whatever it is that I think is going to be the gold standard. But also the next option is usually going to be, if you can't afford that, what is your next option? So my next option I always talk to them about is going to be doing outpatient care, meaning that we're giving medications just to try to hold them over, so that hopefully they get over it, especially if it's some sort of stomach bug or something.

[00:11:25] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: But also that maybe they'll be able to go see their regular veterinarian in the morning or in the next couple of days. If it's something that I feel that can wait, you know, there are situations to where they cannot wait. Unfortunately, like your dogs that got into the rapid, right? That's definitely not something that could wait.

[00:11:39] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And so I'm going to talk to you about the things that we really have to do in order to save your pet. But I think that not everybody presents it that way. And so I think that just the pet parents knowing how to talk to the veterinarian about that, just, Just being very upfront with them and saying, I don't really have a lot of money to be able to afford this.

[00:11:57] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: This is the amount that I can afford. Is there any way that we can kind of work within this? 

[00:12:04] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah, and I think sometimes people are just hesitant to do that. They don't want to seem cheap. They don't want to admit that they don't have the money. And I think for some people too, it's like, I have the money, but is that my only option?

[00:12:14] Host - Amy Castro: Could I do something different and actually save some money? And I think that makes people feel a little icky to ask that. But I think what you're saying is, you know, if it's not presented as options, then simply asking, are there any other options that could? Get my dog through the weekend or that could buy us some time until we know blah, blah, blah, for sure, without going full bore gold standard, for lack of a better term.

[00:12:41] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Right, exactly. Just knowing how to talk to your veterinarian and just not being ashamed of it. I think that you're right. A lot of people get kind of ashamed of it as if they feel like they're not doing everything that they can for their pet. But they are, you know, we don't want to also spend 5, 000 of somebody's money that they don't have.

[00:12:58] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And then they are now not able to afford their rent or afford their utility bills or their food or whatever. So we want to work with the pet parents as just as much as they want to help their pet. 

[00:13:10] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah. I know we're talking about potentially emergency situation where you snatch up the animal, you jump in the car, and then you drive with your hair on fire to the emergency vet.

[00:13:18] Host - Amy Castro: Obviously, there's not going to be a whole lot of planning or thought, but you did mention getting pet insurance and putting money aside. It's not always easy to do, but especially, like you said, with certain breeds of animals, certain type of animals, or you know your animal's personality. I had a Doberman Pinscher who was a multi thousand dollar dog with the dietary indiscretion that he had.

[00:13:38] Host - Amy Castro: Oh, yes. Um, you know, to the point where he wore a metal basket muzzle. The basket muzzle? Mm hmm. When he went outside to keep him from eating God knows what he would get into. Yes, I always knew that dog was going to continually because you can only watch them so much exactly but beyond Knowing your pet beyond insurance and knowing that you're maybe getting a breed of animal This might be more expensive or have more health issues anything else that people could do before they take off to the emergency vet Whether it's right there or just in preparation to make that Type of a visit go better.

[00:14:10] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Yeah, actually there are a couple of things. Some clinics will accept care credit or scratch pay. So it's like an online third party company that does payment plans. So I think that that's a really great one because they can apply for that online before they even get to the clinic. And then they'll know before if they've even gotten approved for anything.

[00:14:27] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So that way they can be prepared that way. And then also during the day contacting other resources, there are tons of resources like humane societies that help with finances. There are. Rescue organizations that help with finances and you can even contact the vet clinic like we have a list of people it's like three pages long of people who will donate for pets the hardest part about that though is you have to do it during the day before six o'clock so that's always a little bit of a hard one because not everybody will answer after six o'clock we have just a couple people on our list that will.

[00:14:58] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: But yep, 

[00:14:59] Host - Amy Castro: calling you at 3 a. m. I need a grant. 

[00:15:02] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. Yep. And we have one person who she will always answer, which is amazing. But yes, we try not to call her at 3 a. m. if we don't have to. Right, 

[00:15:12] Host - Amy Castro: right. Yeah. That's one of the reasons that my rescue is called Starlight Outreach and Rescue because we do a lot of.

[00:15:19] Host - Amy Castro: Not only shelter animal outreach, helping pay for medical treatment that might not be covered, but definitely owned animal. I mean, our goal is to keep animals in loving homes and loving doesn't necessarily equate to having. Megabucks, sometimes the best homes don't have megabucks and so you'd be surprised, well, you wouldn't be surprised because you've kind of been through this, but I think the public might be surprised in listening to this that if we put a medical fundraiser up and say, hey, this dog got hit by a car, he's got a broken leg.

[00:15:48] Host - Amy Castro: The owner can't afford it. We don't want to take their dog from them. Will you donate towards its medical care? And we'll get the money quickly. And not all rescues do that as one of their, you know, missions, but there's certainly enough out there that it's worth making the phone call and asking. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:05] Host - Amy Castro: Anything else? 

[00:16:08] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Yeah, we did talk a little bit about some things Dr. Google is great for things like, if you don't know what a reverse sneezes, you should probably look that up because I do get a lot of that, that people think that their dog is choking on something, but it's really a reverse sneeze and you can like find videos of them all over YouTube.

[00:16:24] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: I even have a podcast that's just on reverse sneezing. So that you can see exactly what it is so that people don't freak out when they see it. It's like, there are things that Dr. Google's great for so that you can kind of look up to see, is this truly an emergency? And there are other things that Dr.

[00:16:37] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Google's not great for, you know, that they're going to tell you your pet is going to die no matter what, right? Right. 

[00:16:44] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah. Doom and gloom. Yeah. Along those same lines, I would say, and you can tell me if you agree or disagree, but it's just because I spend a lot of time trolling social media from the rescue standpoint, you know, looking for animals that might need help or things where I can maybe intervene in some way, but.

[00:17:02] Host - Amy Castro: The amount of people that will get on Facebook to some neighborhood group and think, My dog's eyeball came out of its head. Do you think I should go to the vet? Yes. Or, you know, just asking for advice from your knucklehead neighbors. Exactly. I think it's better to Google it than to ask the people on Facebook.

[00:17:21] Host - Amy Castro: They have no idea what they're talking 

[00:17:22] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: about. Exactly. Yes. I see a lot of that as well. And I have to try very hard not to say anything. Yes, that is one really hard thing is like when they're just getting, you know, information from random people that, like you said, don't know what they're talking about. I see a lot of them that are like, well, you should put this tea tray oil on them for that eyeball.

[00:17:43] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And I'm like, no, don't do that. 

[00:17:46] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah. Yeah, the remedies, the remedies that are not quite copacetic. 

[00:17:51] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. But even one thing that they can do is they can even just call the local ER and just say like, this is what's going on with my dog. Is this something that I do have to come in for? And usually the receptionist can tell you like, if you're like, my dog's eyeball is sticking out.

[00:18:03] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Should it come in? They'd be like, yes, you should definitely come in. But, but if you're like, well, I'm not really sure if this is an emergency. Can you tell me my dog? Is this something I need to have to come in for now? They'll be very honest with you and say, no, you don't have to come in with for that. If you're really worried, sure, but it's going to be a pretty long wait, or even they do have clinics online, so they do have veterinarians online that you can talk to.

[00:18:27] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: If it's something for like a skin issue, they're probably going to tell you, you don't have to go see the emergency veterinarian. You know, it's something that they could potentially handle over just online care, or they'll tell you to go see your regular vet in the morning. 

[00:18:38] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah, and that's becoming more and more prevalent, the virtual vet visits and those different services, and I haven't investigated them to any great depth, but I'm quite sure they range from you have an annual plan down to a pay by the call kind of thing.

[00:18:53] Host - Amy Castro: Right. The other thing I'll say is one of our rescue partner friends is an energy company called Good Charlie, and it's only based in Texas, at least now. I don't know if they have plans to expand beyond that, but. They're all about animals and they give percentage of money back to rescues and they do all kinds of stuff for rescue.

[00:19:10] Host - Amy Castro: But one of the services that you get, if you are a good Charlie customer, is that 24 seven virtual vet visit. Don't get me to mind about all the ins and outs, but it was like, how cool is that? Right. You know, exactly. Have that as a benefit. It's kind of like your credit card company, you know, back in the day, I don't think people realize, and I think they cut back a lot of those benefits with credit cards, but You know, purchase insurance and all these other things.

[00:19:33] Host - Amy Castro: It's like, you really need to read the fine print because you never know what kind of benefit might be on your credit card or your electric company bill or whatever it might be, you know, do some checking there. Yeah. And even with 

[00:19:45] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: the pet insurances, I can't remember which one, but I know that one of them does actually have like a veterinarian on call, I think it's only during the day, but yeah, the same kind of situation, like you can call in and they'll just tell you whether this is something that could wait or if it's something that they could just deal with 

[00:19:59] Host - Amy Castro: directly.

[00:20:00] Host - Amy Castro: Right, and I think it's a good point that you made when you said that they'll be honest with you because I think sometimes people There's, there's been a lot of veterinarian bashing going on in the world recently, at least in my world and my world is a relatively small world, but it's like, you know, people just getting very angry and upset about the cost of veterinary care.

[00:20:18] Host - Amy Castro: And you know, that vets are in it to make the money. And I know for a fact that is not true. I mean, I, There might be some vet in the world that all they care about is the money, but I think it's very unlikely because they wouldn't put up with the garbage that they have to put up with, that I see as a consultant to veterinarians a lot, but yeah, I mean, you'd be surprised, just make the phone call and ask the question because they don't want you clogging up their emergency waiting room and having to wait six hours and then listen to you complain for six hours when you don't really need to be there.

[00:20:47] Host - Amy Castro: So there's a cost benefit that goes into that. That's just not quite there. Exactly. So, you mentioned before about getting to see the good side of emergency vet care, where you get to bring an animal back from the brink and send it home, and then the not so good side when you have to make end of life decisions.

[00:21:05] Host - Amy Castro: I think that oftentimes, especially when it's, you know, if it's an elderly dog that suddenly collapses, maybe you're a little prepared that that might be coming, but... Your dog gets hit by a car, or eats poison, or gets attacked by another dog, or your cat does, or whatever it might be. If it's a younger animal, you may not have thought through making the end of life decision.

[00:21:25] Host - Amy Castro: So, what kind of things should people think about when it comes to, if an emergency occurred? Yeah, we talked about CPR or not doing CPR and that was a big one. Exactly. 

[00:21:35] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: I think just kind of like talking it through with your family beforehand when you know before the emergency happens, right? Like right now, like tonight, just saying, let's sit down and talk about what we would and we wouldn't do for our pet.

[00:21:46] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: You know, how far would we go for this? And it's kind of like the same thing when you talk about humans, right? If you have a sick grandma, like you're thinking about, what are the things that I'm going to do for her? Like, would I do CPR and stuff for her? But you have a healthy little puppy right now. You still need to think about those things.

[00:22:00] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So, like you said, one of the things is thinking about CPR. Would you do CPR or not on your pet? I'm very honest with people and tell them there is less than a 5% chance that we will get that pet back and they will walk out the door. A lot of times, there's a good 50% chance I'll get them back. But the chances that they're going to walk out that door is...

[00:22:18] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Very, very small. So just knowing that information beforehand, because most of the time you watch like house, right? And literally every time in every episode, they, somebody goes into cardiac arrest. They shock them, they bring them back and then they somehow miraculously leave. Right. 

[00:22:35] Host - Amy Castro: They're playing tennis the next 

[00:22:36] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: day.

[00:22:37] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 10 to 15%

[00:22:47] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: as well. So it's really like thinking about that beforehand, like, would you put your pet through that and all the aftercare afterwards? It's not just bringing your pet back. It's also then they have to be hospitalized because now we have to deal with whatever the first problem was that they went into cardiac arrest for and now we have to deal with all the secondary problems after we did CPR because we do a lot of damage to them doing CPR.

[00:23:10] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Not not because we want to, but that's because we have to in order to get them back. Right? So there's a lot of things that go into it, not just bringing your pet back. Yeah. 

[00:23:18] Host - Amy Castro: I think we can't stress that enough, and I know I've learned to focus more on that in rescue work. Not only the expense of, you know, how much money you're going to expend on a particular animal, but what are you willing to do afterwards?

[00:23:31] Host - Amy Castro: And what is that aftercare going to be like? We've had several incidents recently where animals have come to us paralyzed, let's say, you know, and their back legs are paralyzed, and they can't urinate. On their own. And so, you know, the finder is like, well, hi, you know, I'll take it home because the cat seems happy and fine.

[00:23:50] Host - Amy Castro: I'll take it home and I'll express its bladder. And, you know, yeah, you can physically do that. Are you, are you going to do that three times a day? And how long is the cat going to want to have that done to them? It's not a pleasant. You know, it's not a pleasant thing. So I think having those conversations and really thinking through the what ifs.

[00:24:08] Host - Amy Castro: I think that's one thing that I've learned the hard way in human loss is that, you know, we think that we have this very clear idea in our heads of don't bring me back if this is going to happen. You know, I don't want to be back if I want to be on a ventilator, but there's so many other scenarios you could find yourself in that you hadn't talked about.

[00:24:25] Host - Amy Castro: And so try to really think about that, especially when it comes to your pets because they can't make that decision. Transcribed For themselves and the other thing I want to say too is the monetary factor because I think people delude themselves People that say I would do anything for my pet. It's like, okay, would you spend 10, 000 on radiation treatment?

[00:24:44] Host - Amy Castro: I'm not spending 10, 000 on a dog. And as you even have 10, 000, that's a whole nother spend. Yes we don't like to think that we put a dollar limit to the value of our pets lives, but For many of us, there is a limit, and I think that's something to, to think about in advance as well. And I know that's, I know that's hard on you as veterinarians, because people come in, they want you to do the gold standard, but then they're not able to pay it, and it puts you in a real difficult position.

[00:25:12] Host - Amy Castro: Especially if you don't have angel investors or angel donors that are willing to... pay for that. Exactly. 

[00:25:18] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Yeah, and just thinking about their quality of life afterwards, you know, like you had mentioned with the cat, just having to express their bladder three times a day, it's like for the rest of their life, it's like till they're 18, right?

[00:25:27] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: They're going to be painful doing it. Are they going to be in a wheelchair? Because in a wheelchair, you have to be really diligent about making sure that they don't get sores all over, or if their bladder is too full, they're going to urinate on themselves and then they get... Get urine scalding. Just really thinking about if you do this procedure or if you follow through with this treatment, what is their quality of life going to be afterwards?

[00:25:47] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: For me, I always tell people if they can't do the thing that they love to do, like for a cat, if they love to go outside and chase lizards or something. But they can't do that because they're paralyzed. Are they going to have a good quality of life? Or for my dog, um, for me, it was that he wasn't able to walk anymore.

[00:26:04] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And he is the thing that he loved to do is literally just follow me from room to room. And he couldn't do that anymore. Just thinking about like, what is their quality of life going to be afterwards? Even if you could put 10, 000 into this, if they're not going to be able to walk, are you going to be able to handle that for another 10 years of their life or whatever?

[00:26:22] Host - Amy Castro: Right, right. We even went through that with my bulldog had her ACL reconstructed and so even just leash walking her for 30 days or trying to support her with a towel under her belly when she first couldn't walk on that. I don't, I don't think I could have done that towel walking thing for a week, let alone for the rest of her life.

[00:26:42] Host - Amy Castro: And she didn't like it either, you know, she was not appreciating what the heck was going on at that point. So really need to think about what life is going to be like and are you and the animal living your best life or are you better off, you know, making a different decision. One of the things that I tell people in order to make them maybe feel a little bit better when they have to euthanize a pet is that, unlike us, if we know we're going to die, not that I've been in that position, but we might process it in a variety of different ways, whereas if you've made the decision to euthanize your pet, they're not going through the mental anguish that you're going through or that a human patient might go through knowing that they're dying.

[00:27:22] Host - Amy Castro: Do you ever have conversations with people? about stuff like that. I'm trying to help them maybe feel better about making that decision, because it's a tough decision to make. 

[00:27:30] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. It is a very tough decision to make. And I do have people who come in just for a quality of life discussion. Like, is their quality of life good enough at home?

[00:27:38] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: But yeah, I do feel like a lot of that is just trying to talk to them about kind of what you're saying. You know, the, the pet doesn't know what's happening. All they know right now is they're in pain or that they're suffering. And when I do humane euthanasias, I always give them sedation with a really good pain medication.

[00:27:53] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So they don't even know what's happening. So I know a lot of people are like, well, when you think about. People who die, it is a long drawn out thing when they're older. There's not a lot of states that do, like, human euthanasia. So for most people, it's gonna be that their body just finally shuts down. And I feel like that's sometimes, that's a really hard thing to watch.

[00:28:12] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And that's not something that I would want for a pet, because they don't understand, right? They don't understand why they're going through this suffering, this pain. So a lot of times I'll have a lot of people ask me, like, can I take my pet home? to pass away at home, so I will talk to them about the fact that, you know, that's a really hard thing on them.

[00:28:29] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Like, a lot of these are dogs who have heart failure. They're pretty much drowning in their own fluid, so they feel terrible. They don't understand. So really, like, the best thing that you can do for them is not have them go through that, you know? 

[00:28:41] Host - Amy Castro: Right. Yeah, not for one minute longer than you need 

[00:28:44] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: to, for sure.

[00:28:44] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. Some of the other things, like, we talked about the CPR portion of what to think about for CPR, but maybe there are a lot of other things to think about. Like, if you have to do an amputation on a dog, if your dog has really bad arthritis, is that something that's really good for that dog? Or radiation treatment, like what you're talking about.

[00:29:00] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: That's not just the amount of money that you have to put into radiation therapy. It's also taking your dog there multiple times a week to be able to do that. Like five days a week, exactly. Or if you take them, there's a lot of like the school that we have in Washington, you can send them to that school for radiation treatment and stuff.

[00:29:16] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: But then they stay there for however long it is. I think it's like a month or two while they are boarded in that clinic. But that also means you don't get to see them for a month or two. And are you willing to do those things for them? 

[00:29:30] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah. I like to look at the whole picture when I'm making decisions about anything related to my pet's care.

[00:29:35] Host - Amy Castro: And not to say that there's not emotion that feeds into that, but just as an example. So my Doberman Pinscher, when he was about seven, got a hemangioparasitoma. I hope I'm saying that right. Yep, you are. And highly curable with radiation, obviously quite curable when you amputate the leg. And so I was kind of.

[00:29:54] Host - Amy Castro: Facing the decision of and it was a front leg, uh, on a Doberman Pinscher who is seven years old. Do I amputate the leg for 1, 500 or do I go through the what ended up being? Pretty much 10 grand, um, for, for the radiation and after treatment. And I opted for the radiation, not because I was Miss Moneybags.

[00:30:15] Host - Amy Castro: I actually cut into some of my daughter's college money. Oh, poor daughter. Uh, poor daughter. Yeah, she got over it. She's fine. Uh, but my decision making process took into consideration. What was the treatment to travel because I did have to go to Houston hour each way, right? Five days a week for a month kind of thing I got super lucky though, because he was such a howler when he woke up from his anesthesia that they just wanted him to heck out Did him first thing in the morning and I just waited on him and then took him home Yeah, like waiting around all day or coming back and making four trips face Yeah, but I opted to do that because in my mind he was only seven He had his mother, grandmother, father, all lived to be at least 13.

[00:30:56] Host - Amy Castro: We had hardwood floors, and he was kind of a spaz, so he wasn't really great on four legs, let alone three. Right. And I always worried, like, what if his back hips start to go? You know, now we're gonna have a problem. And which, that eventually did happen. And so, I was glad he had that front leg. Whereas, had it been my Min Pin Coco, who I think probably could have survived on one leg.

[00:31:16] Host - Amy Castro: She was so agile and limber and, you know, she could take a flying leap onto the back of the couch. I probably would have amputated her leg only because she would have been fine. Exactly. And so... I think, uh, and this is just my personal advice from having been through this, not only with personal pets, but also with rescue animals, is that, you know, sometimes if you take a step back from it and look at the big picture, the decision becomes easier, including your own personal financial, financial picture.

[00:31:42] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah. 

[00:31:43] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And you know, sometimes too, just even like when you're not sure what you should do, even just asking one of your family members or a really close friend, like telling them the situation, because when you talk to me, I don't know what your financial situation is, right? I don't know what your life is like.

[00:31:57] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: I don't know if you live in an apartment that you have to go up and downstairs all the time, or do you live in a one story house? You know, I don't know those things. So sometimes just asking somebody who's really close to you after we've talked about it. Can be really helpful because they can also just kind of take in the whole picture and be like, well, you know, I don't think it'd be a really good idea for you to have to deal with this dog who's paralyzed, who's 100 pounds, because I don't think you can get them down the stairs versus, you know, if you have a little men pin, they're like, well, that'd be super easy for you to pick up.

[00:32:23] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Pick up and take downstairs right to go to the bathroom. So yeah, one of the other things too, is people think that you can't ask the veterinarian, like, what would you do you can all the time? Yeah, exactly. All the time. There's no law saying that we can't tell you what we would do. We're allowed to tell you our opinion.

[00:32:40] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So if it was, you know, a lot of times I'll say, well, like, well, I have. Two big dogs and a small dog. It would depend on which dog that I had. If it was my big dogs, I probably wouldn't do it. If it was my small dogs, yeah, I probably would do it because I know that she's gonna live a lot longer than my really large dog.

[00:32:55] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So. 

[00:32:55] Host - Amy Castro: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, there's just so much to consider in such a short period of time. How important do you believe it is for the pet parent, pet owner, whatever you call yourself, if you do make the decision to euthanize the pet, to be with the pet while that process is happening, because I know a lot of people I've actually taken people's pets for them to the vet and been there with that and the pet knew me, you know, it wasn't like I was a total stranger, rando, but I have very different feelings about who should be there, but I'm curious from your perspective, having seen probably a lot of these situations.

[00:33:29] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Yeah, absolutely. So I have a couple of things with that. One is from the owner's perspective or the pet parent's perspective, I know how hard it is for that to be like the last thing that you see. They think about all the happy times, but at any time, like, I can see my one pet who, I had my friend euthanize her and she didn't sedate her beforehand, like, That is literally the light in her eyes.

[00:33:49] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: That is the last thing that I saw of her, and that's the first image that I see all the time when I think about her. So I know how hard that is for people to have to be there to see those things. So I don't think it's for everybody. I do think that one thing though is asking the veterinarian, are you going to sedate them?

[00:34:05] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Because at least that way, if they're sedate, and then you want to walk out of the room afterwards. You were the last thing that they saw you were the last lap that they were in that they're ever going to know and then that way you don't have to be there for that last injection. But at least you were there until they were sedated.

[00:34:19] Host - Amy Castro: That's a good point. That's kind of a nice, uh, hate to call it happy medium, but it's like you said, you're there while the animals conscious after that. Does it really matter that you stayed till the last heartbeat? 

[00:34:29] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Exactly. And you know, even if pet parents are not there for them, um, We always have technicians who don't want them to be alone.

[00:34:35] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So they're always going to be like holding them, talking to them, tell them how great they are while we're doing the injections. If somebody else isn't going to be there. Anyway, on the flip side of that, not always can somebody be there. I've definitely had people who were out of town when it happened.

[00:34:49] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And I've also had people who have, I just couldn't have them there because we couldn't even get a catheter under the pet. So a lot of times we have to kind of make that compromise of, can I sedate them? With you in the room, so as soon as they're asleep, we'll take them back. So that way we know that we can do it very quickly since we can't get a catheter into them.

[00:35:06] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: So I think that there's unfortunately situations where the pet parent can't always be there 

[00:35:10] Host - Amy Castro: too. I like that idea of at least staying with your pet as long as you possibly can so they know that you're there for 

[00:35:16] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: them. And you know, when they are out of town in some other state, um, I have definitely asked people, like, do you want to do, like, a FaceTime with them?

[00:35:23] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: That way you can, like, see them and talk to them as I'm giving sedation and stuff. So, you know, that's definitely another thing to, like, ask the veterinarian, can we do that? Because most people are, they're, they'll be very accommodating for those things. 

[00:35:34] Host - Amy Castro: Yeah, that's, that's a good point. So if pet parents are interested in your podcast so that they can learn and educate themselves instead of listening to Dr.

[00:35:44] Host - Amy Castro: Google, we can listen to a real doctor, um, how can they get your podcast? How can they download it? Is it like everywhere you get podcasts and 

[00:35:52] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: yes, pretty much everywhere. So I have it on YouTube so you can. If you want to see me, you can see me and I put like fun pictures and stuff in there too. So like, you're always welcome to look at those.

[00:36:01] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: Even like for the reverse sneezing one that I was talking about, you can see my dog, like what she looks like when she's reverse sneezing. So you can go to YouTube and just put in vet splenation. So it's like, like explanation, but vet in front of it. And then otherwise it's on every other platform. If you want to just listen to it as a podcast, you know, it's on Apple and Spotify and Google.

[00:36:21] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: And all, all the other ones. And so it's pretty much everywhere. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So just great. Yeah. You can just Google vetsplanation and we'll pop 

[00:36:28] Host - Amy Castro: up. Okay. And we'll put some reminders in the show notes too, and some, you know, links to YouTube, et cetera. Great. Oh gosh. Tyler, thank you for being here with us today.

[00:36:38] Host - Amy Castro: I think it reminded me of some things I didn't know about emergency veterinary medicine, and then also some new things that I hadn't quite thought about because I was pretty. You got to be there with your pet, but the way that you explained it, it's like, yeah, it might not be for everybody. It might not be the best choice for the pet even.

[00:36:54] Host - Amy Castro: So I appreciate, uh, I always appreciate the opportunity to have my eyes open to something new because I think I know it all most of the time. Sorry. So anyway, thank you so much for being here. I 

[00:37:06] Tyler Sugerman-McGiffin: appreciate it. Thank you, Amy. I appreciate you having me on. 

[00:37:09] Host - Amy Castro: All right. You take care. And everybody, thank you again for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk.

[00:37:14] Host - Amy Castro: And like we'd like to say every week, if you don't do anything else this week, give your pet a hug from us. 

[00:37:21] Announcer: You've been listening to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast. We're glad you joined us to gain new insight on the many loving ways to adopt and care for your pets. Be sure to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode.

[00:37:32] Announcer: And if you want more information, go to StarlightPetTalk. com because your pet can't talk. Be sure to join us next time for Starlight Pet Talk.