Transcript
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Hey, there it's Amy.
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Welcome back to Muddy Paws and Hairballs.
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So while we're on a little break before we officially launch in 2025, I thought it was the perfect time to bring back one of our top five episodes of 2024.
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If you missed it the first time, lucky you, because this one is a game changer and now you've got a second chance.
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In this episode, I sat down with Dr Marlene Siegel, who is an absolute rock star in integrative veterinary medicine.
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She's been in the field for over 40 years, but what makes her so fascinating is the way that she blends holistic pet care with cutting-edge science to help pets live longer and healthier lives, and I don't think there's anyone amongst us who's listening right now that wouldn't want to get another few years, especially if those years were quality years with their pets.
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So we are talking about practical, real-world tips that you can use right away to improve your pet's health, from the best diet choices to detoxifying your pet's environment, healing their gut and even addressing their emotional well-being.
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Honestly, I couldn't believe how much I learned during this conversation and, based on the response from listeners like you, I wasn't the only one.
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So grab your coffee or leash up the dog, or just kick back and relax, because this episode is a must-listen, or leash up the dog, or just kick back and relax, because this episode is a must-listen.
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Let's dive back into my chat with Dr Marlene Siegel.
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My special guest today is Dr Marlene Siegel, a true pioneer in bioregulatory veterinary medicine.
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When traditional treatments fall short, dr Siegel steps in with innovative solutions.
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She's an international lecturer, researcher and consultant who is always finding new ways to help pets and their parents.
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In her practice, she uses therapies like ozone and photodynamic therapy and focuses on identifying and treating the root cause of disease, not just symptoms.
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Dr Siegel also shares her knowledge with the world through journal articles, webinars and online courses for both pet parents and veterinarians, which I think is awesome.
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I definitely want people to check out those courses.
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When she couldn't find the right diets and supplements for her patients, she created her own raw food and supplement company and now, in her latest venture, she's gearing up to launch SPAWS Family Wellness Centers, which are detox centers for pets and their people.
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So, dr Siegel, thank you so much for joining me here today.
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Oh, you're so welcome and I'm excited to be able to speak to your audience.
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I know we've been looking forward to this for a while because I think you're doing so many cutting edge things that people haven't heard of and some of it's a mouthful kind of like bioregulatory veterinary medicine.
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What exactly is that?
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Well, thank you for letting me define it, because we are now hearing about more and more veterinarians that are saying they are holistic.
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Well, what does that mean?
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And holistic actually was defined as whole body medicine, but what it's being used at currently is if a veterinarian takes an acupuncture course or they take a course in herbs or chiropractic, they call themselves a holistic practitioner.
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But they're really not, because in order to truly understand holistic medicine, you have to understand biology and the whole patient.
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And then the term integrative medicine came about, which means that they're mixing a little bit of Eastern medicine, the alternative holistic, integrative stuff along with the traditional allopathic Western medicine.
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But the problem that I have with a lot of veterinarians who say they are integrative is they're using their acupuncture needle as, instead of a pill for the ill, now it's a needle for the ill and they're still not addressing the root cause of dis-ease.
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So, bioregulatory medicine there's no way to mess that one up.
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It really means that you understand the biology of the body for that particular species and you're able to direct your diagnostics and your therapeutics to enable the body to do what it innately and intelligently knows how to do.
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So, amy, most people think they go to the doctor and they get a pill.
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And the doctor made them better.
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No, their body made them better when they gave their body the opportunity to heal.
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In most cases the body heals, despite us, because we're doing so many things to screw it up.
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But in bioregulatory medicine it's truly understanding the biology of the body, the biochemical pathways, what gets turned on, what gets turned off by our epigenetic lifestyle.
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What are we doing in our world?
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What are we eating, what are we drinking, what's our thoughts, what's our behavior?
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And how is that affecting the biology of the body?
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Are we hurting it or are we helping it?
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And that's as simple as it gets.
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Right, well, and you know when you said about giving the pill and we think it's healing it and it's really your body healing, but sometimes isn't it true that sometimes it's not even being, it's being masked, it's not being healed at all?
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You're just covering things up masked.
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It's not being healed at all.
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You're just covering things up.
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We call that symptom suppression, which is a beautiful point that we want to make, because we are a society where we have been conditioned and trained by the Medical Institute to have a symptom and immediately go for suppressing that symptom.
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We get a headache, we take an aspirin, which is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory.
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Despite all the side effects, people still do that.
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And if you have, let's say, diarrhea, we don't question why we have the diarrhea or why did you have the headache, because it's your body talking to you and you take a medication that makes the symptoms go away.
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And when the symptom is gone, you go oh look, I'm all better.
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But we wouldn't do that to our car.
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If the dash light on your car came up and said you have a check engine light or nowadays it's just a general you need to go find out what it is.
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But back in the day, when I started driving, it actually told you there was a problem somewhere, and it told you what the problem was.
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Well, we wouldn't consider unplugging the dash light and saying, look, the problem is gone.
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It's insane, right?
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We laugh at that, but yet we do that to our body, and our body is the most magnificent machine who is communicating to us all the time.
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It's okay, if you want to treat your symptom, just don't stop there.
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Ask that big, important question why do I have a headache, why am I having GI problems, why do I have skin disease?
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And that's for yourself.
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And we're taking the exact same application to our pets, which is even more important because you know they say they don't talk to you.
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I think they do talk to us.
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We just aren't listening with the right ears.
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But let's just suffice it to say they're showing us the symptoms that they have and instead of addressing the root cause, the average veterinarian has only been trained to address the symptoms.
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We name it, we blame it and then we come up with a treatment or a pharmaceutical and then we make it go away.
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But most pets' parents would agree that their pets relapse.
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And now the symptom comes back and oftentimes it's worse than the initial or it comes back as a more severe complaint from the body, a more severe disease.
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Yeah, that's such a good point.
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I mean, I even I was having a lot of problems with my knee, which it has a torn ACL, so there's definitely damage in there, and to the point where I thought, okay, I probably need to seek surgery because it's just, it was miserable, miserable, miserable.
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Anyway, go to the orthopedic surgeon.
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Doesn't think surgery is going to do anything, prescribes a drug for it and it worked.
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But what I discovered after the fact, when I made some diet and lifestyle changes, that I truly believe that the key to a lot of my aches and pains were inflammation, and I have eliminated some inflammatory inducing things from my diet and I've not had to take a pill for any of that and nothing else has changed.
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You know, it's just that one element.
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So it is so amazing how much the body can heal itself if we just let it.
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Absolutely.
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And inflammation, as you just said, it is the underpinning of all dis-ease.
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Now, I said it that way, I did D-I-S space E-A-S-E because I truly, after 40 years in practice, I truly appreciate the fact that there is no disease, there is dis-ease, the body not being in balance, and when the body is in balance, we have ease and flow.
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So number one is addressing why are we seeing the inflammation?
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And that inflammation will settle in the weakest link in the body.
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So for you, on your ACL, it actually stemmed from leaky gut, which led to inflammation along your spine, which caused a decrease in blood flow and circulation from the nerves of the spine going out to the end users, ie the cells and the joints, and so your joints become weak because they don't have good nutrition and they can't get rid of cellular debris and they get weak.
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And then all you have to do is step the wrong way or make a turn and poof, that's a weakened joint.
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But it came from the gut, leading to inflammation, leading to the spine.
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And I am using that as an example because we see so many ACL tears in dogs now more than we have ever seen.
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It's almost epidemic.
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And we're also seeing, when we do radiographs that a majority of our patients are having spinal disc degeneration or osteoarthritis in the spine, and so it makes sense.
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The story actually plays out If you have all that inflammation in the spine, just like in your case, you're going to have a weakness of energy and blood flow and circulation and nutrients getting to the end user that those nerves are supposed to be feeding, and then you get a weakened distal area and then it has more of an opportunity to break.
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Yes, the whole thing to me is completely, completely fascinating.
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I'm assuming you didn't learn all this stuff early on.
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This is stuff that came in later in life.
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How did you develop to the point where you have taken this journey into looking so much more deeply at our pets and their biology?
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I think it's true for all people that step out of the box and are willing to do great things in the world is there has to be some pain point that you experience, whether it's in yourself or someone that you love.
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And so for me, it was one of my horses becoming injured and that horse had saved my daughter's life, was one of my horses becoming injured and that horse had saved my daughter's life physically saved my daughter's life.
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So when it came time for me to understand what had happened in that riding accident, I was determined to fix this horse, and when I had equine veterinarians come out to see her, their short answer was we don't know what's wrong with her, she's not safe to ride, you'll never show her again and you could put her out to a pasture for the rest of her was.
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We don't know what's wrong with her, she's not safe to ride, you'll never show her again and you could put her out to a pasture for the rest of her life, or you could put her down.
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And it was those words the there is nothing more that can be done that lit something up in me.
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First of all, I refuse to accept that, and I think there's so many stories of people who are diagnosed with stage four cancers and they're told go home, get your affairs in order, there's nothing more you can do, and they, just something in them says no, I am not willing to accept that as an answer and they are able to heal themselves from stage four diseases.
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And it was that kind of motivation.
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I was determined to fix this horse, because I owed that to her, and this passion came up in me that I had no idea was that strong and despite the fact that I had an incredibly busy life and my practice was busy I was raising and homeschooling two children and I just I don't know.
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You find room and when the universe says it's your time to do something, you just step up to the plate and you do it, because if you don't, it's going to come back at you and going to say, oh, you missed the first opportunity.
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We're going to come back and tell you again.
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So that's how I started.
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My journey was really to try to fix the horse and as I learned more tools to fix her, I incorporated those into my small animal practice, into my personal life.
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I incorporated those into my small animal practice, into my personal life and honestly, amy, when I look back at pictures of myself 20 years ago, I look older then than I do now and I'm almost 70 years old, and it's the difference on how I have learned to understand my biology.
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So I biohack my own body and not for any other reason that I want to be here for a long time and I want to feel good and I want to have lots of energy and I want my brain to work and I have so much I want to do and I don't want to be slowed down.
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So, at Pushing 70, I have zero health issues and I'm on zero allopathic medications, but I take a boatload of nutritional supplements that are all geared towards helping my biology do its job.
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Yeah, and I would highly recommend that everybody go out, and we're going to put in our show notes a link to your website, but the video where you're telling in more detail the story about your horse Lily.
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I was boohooing when I was watching that video.
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You're a very good storyteller, but it's a very compelling story about that pivotal event and how much it changed you and how you see things and how much people's pets have benefited as a result.
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You know, on a spiritual level, I believe everything happens for our highest and best good and everything is a blessing, even the most ouchy things that you can go through.
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So if you're experiencing a painful moment in your life or it's been going on a long time, just know that if you can lean into it and ask for evidence of the blessings, you will find it.
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And when you look back you go oh my gosh, I wouldn't change a thing because I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't go through what I did then.
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And every experience in our life helps to mold us who we are today.
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And then we find our purpose and our passion and then after that it's just lean in and do it.
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Yeah yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent on that.
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So we know that you know, we know the story of what got you down this path and, like I said, I highly recommend people go check out that video because it was very compelling.
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But tell us about your five-step approach to pet health.
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It seems simple, but yet so profound at the same time.
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When we talk about medicine and health and you go.
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From the allopathic perspective, it's so complicated that you sit there and you go.
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I don't know how to figure out my own health challenges, let alone my pet's health challenges, and I just asked for some clarity on how do we make it concise and clear and easy to follow and sustainable, because if you don't have a sustainable plan, you're not going to keep doing it.
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Yeah, that's huge so what I came up with was it's actually six steps, but in my book I only say five, because the sixth step is our woo-woo step, it's our emotional side.
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But let me go through them for you because it'll make more sense.
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So, step number one we have to stop doing the things that are causing the dis-ease.
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Like we can't go and take a pill for the ill or a diet for the disease and expect things to be different when you haven't changed any of the things that you're doing.
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Einstein, one of his famous quotes, was insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
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Oh my gosh, that is so true.
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He also said you can't solve problems with the same mindset that created them.
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So not only do we have to do something different, but we have to think differently, and the world that we're living in right now isn't the same world that we had even 20 years ago.
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So it's extremely important that we have an open mind to say okay, what else can we do?
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So with that setting the stage, step number one is stop doing the things that are causing disease.
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And we look at the diet In diet.
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Are we feeding a species appropriate diet?
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I just did a talk with a gentleman who is all about doing webinars and we were having this business conversation and I said do you have pets?
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And he said, no, I don't have a pet yet, but I know my pet's name when I get one.
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And I said, well, what are you going to feed your pet when you get it?
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This is a very intelligent man who lives an organic lifestyle.
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He and his wife.
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They cook organic, they try to grow their own food.
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They're in a CSA, you know.
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They're really into exercise and all the things that are biohacking human health, and he's a very handsome man, very well built, and when I asked him that question, he goes well, I guess, based on the commercials I watch on TV, I think I would feed Purina.
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And it was such a beautiful opportunity for me to help him understand why it is that I'm trying to get my programs out to the world is because he is going off of a belief system.
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We will now call it BS.
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A belief system is not a bad word and that BS is that he is simply learning from what he's being taught around him.
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Is that he is simply learning from what he's being taught around him?
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We're taught from our parents and what they did if they had pets, and our caregivers and our teachers and what we see on TV.
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And if we believe that, then we don't go any further in asking is that actually a healthy diet?
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Like you know, we wouldn't go to McDonald's and Wendy's and Taco Bell every day and expect to be healthy because it's processed foods.
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Why in heaven's name would we think it's okay to feed our pets processed foods?
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But if you don't know better, you can't do better.
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So that's step number one is learning about a sustainable, species appropriate diet.
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What does that look like?
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And then water.
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Oh my gosh, that water.
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We could spend two hours talking about just water.
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But water is not the water that comes out of our tap that we want to be drinking.
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That water is full of heavy metals and chemicals and pesticides and genetically modified glyphosates in there.
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It's horrible.
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Depending on where you live, it could even be worse.
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I live in Florida.
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We have terrible water.
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So learning how to get good, clean, filtered water and structured water, which structured water is the water that is in our bodies.
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We all know we're made of 70% water, but that's not the water that's coming out of the tap.
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This is actually a different molecular construction and it's a gel phase.
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So, yes, we are made of 70% water, but it is structured water and that structured water is what is critical for our body to be able to function.
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It surrounds every cell in our body, the organelles in the cell.
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It's a communication highway between the mitochondria and the microbiome, the guys that make energy, and the bugs and parasites and viruses and all that live on us that actually contribute more genetic information to us than our own genetic information.
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Isn't that a shocker?
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So we don't want to be just cutting out all the different parasites.
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It's not about making the bacteria and the viruses the villain, it's about the environment that they're living in.
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We call it the terrain, the internal terrain, and we've all seen gardens and land where there's a lot of weeds because the terrain isn't healthy, the soil's not lush.
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Well, what happens?
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You get a lot of weeds that come in because they're trying to establish something for other things to be able to grow after them, and that's what happens in our bodies.
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When the terrain is poor.
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Then the pathogens start to multiply as the first line of defense to try to at least maintain a home, and then hopefully things improve and the host organism gets a little smarter and then starts to nurture the body, and then the terrain goes back to being a healthy terrain, which is a balance for all the microbes to live in and on, and then we have all the pollutants that are in our air, in our home environment.
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What are we cleaning with, what are we doing laundry with?
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And, last but not least, is the ants that live in our brain, and they are called automatic negative thoughts.
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So the acronym is ants, and it may be the most important of all the things, because if you think it, that's what you're going to get.
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So if you believe you're going to have a certain outcome, you probably will, because you're focusing on it and you bring that into reality.
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And I know it sounds a little woo woo, but I think nowadays people are starting to understand that if they stay in a negative mindset, they actually make neurochemicals that are derived from this negative mindset.
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That is communicating from the hormones that you're producing to the cells and your DNA and it says bad place, here we're going down the tubes, things are not good, and so that leads to more inflammation, more high sympathetic tone, which is stress, and everything just starts to go south from there.
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But when we have a very positive mindset when we're thinking the world is half full of wonderful things instead of half empty.
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When we are in gratitude and kindness and we can give compassion, you send out an entirely different group of neurotransmitters and you can stay in a parasympathetic tone where your body can actually heal and repair.
00:21:40.210 --> 00:21:48.752
Why this is important for us to be talking about what our thoughts are is because our pets entrain to what our energies are.
00:21:48.752 --> 00:21:58.846
So if you're giving off a lot of anger, frustration, hatred, bitterness, all of that, then your animals are entraining to that energy.
00:21:58.846 --> 00:22:00.531
They don't understand why.
00:22:00.531 --> 00:22:06.067
All they know is there's something bad, there may be danger, there's something not good happening.
00:22:06.067 --> 00:22:07.545
And what do they do?
00:22:07.545 --> 00:22:18.669
They come over to us and they put their head underneath our hand to be petted, or they get on our lap, or they lick us, or they just lay next to us and, instinctually, what do we do?
00:22:18.669 --> 00:22:20.806
We reach out and we start to pet them.
00:22:20.806 --> 00:22:24.463
And every pet owner says yes to what I'm about to say.
00:22:24.463 --> 00:22:33.407
No matter how bad they feel when they start holding and or petting their fur, baby, they start to feel better.
00:22:33.407 --> 00:22:42.693
And that's because you're taking some of that low vibration energy and you're offing it to that pet Not to be guilty.
00:22:42.693 --> 00:22:44.202
You're not causing them disease.
00:22:44.202 --> 00:22:47.672
I think they incarnate with us for that purpose.
00:22:47.672 --> 00:22:52.448
I think they're here to help us navigate this very dense fifth dimension.
00:22:52.868 --> 00:23:01.252
And isn't it interesting that of all the species on the planet they say dogs in particular have unconditional love.
00:23:01.252 --> 00:23:03.343
What a great model.
00:23:03.343 --> 00:23:14.586
If we just start paying attention to dog behavior and how happy they are and how in the moment they are, that alone would change people's lives, if they could just be happy and be in the moment.
00:23:14.586 --> 00:23:16.375
So that's step number one.
00:23:16.375 --> 00:23:18.221
And of course, electromagnetic pollution.
00:23:18.221 --> 00:23:20.025
I didn't include that, but it's very important.
00:23:20.025 --> 00:23:26.363
That's the EMF that we're exposed to, our Wi-Fi, our computers, our cell phones and all of that and 5G.
00:23:26.363 --> 00:23:29.108
It's devastating to our pet's health.
00:23:29.108 --> 00:23:31.314
So that's all step number one.
00:23:31.314 --> 00:23:32.381
Any questions on that one?
00:23:32.922 --> 00:23:33.142
Yes.
00:23:33.142 --> 00:23:35.705
Well, because it's a lot.
00:23:35.705 --> 00:23:45.345
It's a lot to digest and say that I, as a pet parent, am working two jobs and I have three pets and I'm running and gunning with my.
00:23:45.345 --> 00:23:47.330
I don't have little children, but you know what I mean.
00:23:47.330 --> 00:23:49.202
You've got a very busy life.
00:23:49.202 --> 00:23:51.768
How do we take charge of that?
00:23:51.768 --> 00:23:54.299
I mean EMFs and toxins and whatever I mean.
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:57.306
It's what's the starting point, because obviously we're not going to do it all.
00:23:57.306 --> 00:24:01.314
We're not going to do it all right away, but what are some of the first things we should be doing?
00:24:01.314 --> 00:24:03.500
Like the water thing to me is a huge thing.
00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:14.340
Like that to me should be pretty easy to control the ingredients in your pet foods and avoiding toxins from that perspective, even if you're not going to like make your pet its food, kind of thing.
00:24:14.761 --> 00:24:15.502
Absolutely.
00:24:16.064 --> 00:24:21.273
Step number one is awareness, like step number one is recognizing what does my life look like.
00:24:21.273 --> 00:24:23.384
Am I stressed out all the time?
00:24:23.384 --> 00:24:25.451
Are we in high sympathetic tone all the time?
00:24:25.451 --> 00:24:31.009
Am I using cleaners that are full of xenoestrogens and toxins?
00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:35.260
Am I doing laundry in something that isn't organic?
00:24:35.260 --> 00:24:41.354
That is actually contributing to endocrine disruptors, these chemicals that change our hormones?
00:24:41.354 --> 00:24:43.567
So awareness is number one.
00:24:43.567 --> 00:24:48.410
It really is the first step, and then step number two, there has to be a desire to change.
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:55.153
Sadly, I think a lot of people aren't motivated to change until some crisis happens in their life.
00:24:55.153 --> 00:25:10.527
I would love to encourage people to make little baby steps before that, but it is what it is, and even for me, the big motivator was saving my horse when I thought I was too busy to take on anything else.
00:25:10.527 --> 00:25:26.893
And amazingly, now I look back and I go wow, I took on so much more and I'm so much happier and I'm so much more productive because I have learned how to manage my sleep and my mind and my energy and my body.
00:25:26.893 --> 00:25:29.500
It's amazing Like people hang out with me and they go.
00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:33.431
How do you do what you do at your age, at any age?
00:25:33.431 --> 00:25:39.854
And it's because I am constantly biohacking and staying in a positive energy.
00:25:39.854 --> 00:25:45.330
I do gratitude exercises throughout the day, not just in the morning and not just at night, throughout the day.
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:47.604
But step number one is awareness.
00:25:47.604 --> 00:25:52.522
Step number two is deciding is it important enough to you to make a change?
00:25:52.522 --> 00:26:03.683
And then it's really simple from there, because I have people when they take my course it's very thorough, it's a three hour course and I have them take a piece of paper and fold it in half.
00:26:03.683 --> 00:26:06.329
They have a column A and a column B.
00:26:06.329 --> 00:26:13.481
Columna are all the things I'm talking about that they should be doing in the course, but they're not doing that yet.
00:26:13.481 --> 00:26:15.307
No judgment, you're just going to write it down.
00:26:15.307 --> 00:26:21.909
Column B are all the things you should not be doing, and you still are because we haven't taught you what to replace it with.
00:26:21.909 --> 00:26:24.773
So, column A all the things you should be doing.
00:26:24.773 --> 00:26:26.482
Column B all the things you shouldn't be doing.
00:26:26.482 --> 00:26:32.724
And then I simply have them pick what's the one most important thing on column A that you should be doing.