Be a Foster, Save a Life

Fostering Saves Lives: Why You Should Consider Being a Pet Foster, with Nora Burns

Announcer: Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents learn everything they need to know to have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet. So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk rescue adoption and pet parenting done right.

Amy Castro: Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host Amy Castro, and today we're talking about one of my personal favorite subjects, and that is becoming a pet foster. Every organization is a little bit different, but with Starlight Outreach and Rescue, which is my organization, we cannot survive without fosters. We are a foster based rescue, which basically means we don't have a building to house animals. We rely on volunteers to take wiggly puppies like this one. And I know people who are listening, audio only, you can't see this puppy, but I will post pictures of her because she is a cute little button. But anyway, so we don't have a big fancy building to house animals, and we need people like you to temporarily house some of our pets so that we can help more pets.

Amy Castro: And I will say about fosters, before we kind of dig into the issue a little bit more about the pros and cons of being a foster, is that, from our standpoint or and from the benefit of pets, not only does it give an animal a nice place to live, while it is waiting to find a forever home, but it really teaches animals how to live in a home, which is something that makes them much more adoptable.

Amy Castro: It also allows adopters to see pets in a home environment rather than a stainless steel cage. Because I've even had people tell me before they don't want to go into a shelter because it makes them too sad. So there's a lot of benefits for the animals for being a foster, but I think there's also a lot of benefits to the people who foster.

Amy Castro: And so to explore, Gigi, nobody needs to hear you whining on the podcast. We might have to give you a timeout in a minute. So to explore this issue of fostering and what it's like to be a pet foster, I have invited my good friend and fellow professional speaker who I met through my favorite organization, the National Speakers Association, Nora Burns, to be a special guest on the show today.

Amy Castro: Not only is Nora a professional speaker and an expert on leadership, but she is an experienced dog foster. And so rather than me just telling my experiences about fostering, I wanted Nora to be here to share her experiences. So thank you for joining me from beautiful Colorado, Nora.

 Nora Burns: I am excited to be here and I always love talking about dog foster, even to people who don't want to hear about it.

Amy Castro: Yeah, that's right. I know you ever noticed that. Like, I found when I'm doing this podcast and I'm talking to a, a, you know, a fellow dog person, the conversation is so easy, and then suddenly I realize we've been talking for an hour and we're going to have to do a lot of editing. But, yeah, not everybody wants, I don't know why, but not everybody wants to hear, all right, you're going to go down on the floor, please try to pee on my carpet.

Amy Castro: I think that's, that's danger. But anyway. Yeah, people don't always want to hear about it, but this will be a great conversation because people who listen to the Starlight Pet Talk podcast love pets, so they'll be thrilled to hear what you've got to say. So, what made you decide to foster for the first time?

Amy Castro: I'm curious as to what your story is. 

Nora Burns: Yeah. My deep dive into fostering, I had fostered once or twice years and years ago on an emergency foster situation, but really committing to fostering actually happened because of COVID, because I am a professional speaker. All of a sudden, every time I answered the phone, it was a cancellation for like two weeks straight.

Nora Burns: Because everybody was canceling their events, not knowing how long this pandemic was going to go on and I realized that I needed to do something. I needed to find my silver lining to this situation, and I needed to find it fast for my own mental health. So I started thinking about what could I do that would serve my community, that would bring joy to others and to myself, and that I might not be able to normally do because of my travel schedule.

Nora Burns: And I realized that I could do longer term fostering as a result. So I went in and started in March of 2020 looking for and applying to different organizations to be fosters and researching them online. And then on March 21st, 2020, I received two little baby golden doodles into my house and that was the beginning of what became nine.

 Nora Burns: During the time of the COVID era, nine dogs came eight dogs went out. One is still here. So, 

Amy Castro: Ah, that's a pretty, good foster fail ratio. I could live with that if you were one of my fosters 

Nora Burns: And my other dog, the dog that has, I've, labradoodle that has since passed, she essentially adopted the golden doodle, like she bonded with her so quickly and so thoroughly that it was not my intent to get a puppy because my dog was 15 years old. And I kind of thought, okay, you missed the window of introducing a puppy to the house. But she chose her. And the awesome thing is she also taught her how to dog, right?

Nora Burns: Like, so she is very much the same temperament and the same behavioral traits. She's just learned how to dog from her. So, 

Amy Castro: That's great and, so many excellent points just in that story. Number one, I love that you decided to foster first during COVID  rather than run out and, you know, adopt a bunch of dogs because we've obviously have had issues with people who have adopted dogs and had maybe, hadn't thought through the whole process of when they went back to work and how that was going to play out.

Amy Castro: And I think number two, people, whether you're in the market for a dog or a cat or whatever you're fostering or not if you are in the market, great. It is an awesome opportunity to, and I hate to say test drive, but to see what is it like to have a puppy in the house? What is it like to have this breed in my house?

Amy Castro: What is it like to have an animal in my house at all? Can I manage that with my lifestyle? And number two, if you're not in a position because you travel and I know you've got a fantastic support system of friends, I wish I had friends like you do that will take my, all my pets when I go and travel.

Amy Castro: But, if you don't have that support system fostering in between travel not only helps the animals, it helps the rescue you're fostering with, and then you've got a companion for when you're home and you know you've got somebody new every time. I always tell my kitten foster, everybody loves kittens, but they grow up so fast.

 Amy Castro: But if you become a kitten foster, your kitten will never grow up. It'll just be perpetual kittens 24/ 7, and it's awesome. 

Nora Burns: That's awesome. Well, I wish I would've thought of it in college, right?  When I had a dog friendly rental. I know that that doesn't happen a lot of places, right? But I had a dog friendly rental.

Nora Burns:  I had this great yard and I, looking back in hindsight, I thought, oh man, I could have been fostering dogs through that. I had a perfect setup for it. I wasn't in a position to take on, the vet bills of a whole lot of dogs. So fostering would've been a way to have another heartbeat in my house without having to set aside five grand a year towards a pet.

Amy Castro: Yeah, because they're super expensive and I know we, wow, you just gave me a fantastic idea. Let me write that down. Oh, good. College students, cause you know a lot we struggle with college students come to us. Not a ton, but they do come to us to adopt. And I'm always hesitant because their lives are so fluid and they don't know where they're going to be next semester, let alone next year, 15 years from now.

 Amy Castro: And so it's always a little bit scary, especially when you've put your blood, sweat, and tears into an animal that you might have. Bottle fed. It's like, oh, I just worry about them with college students. And I'm not saying they're irresponsible, but they just don't know what their life is going to bring in all instances. And they might not have a parent that's willing to take on their castoff pets. That's a great idea. I'm going to start contacting colleges. About fostering. 

Nora Burns: Well, and it is, there is, because it would've been a great opportunity, and again, especially if they're in a house where they can have pets. Or if they can have negotiated with the landlord or landlady in order to get foster pets, right?

Nora Burns: Like, I think it’s different thing and there might be some more compassion there from the person who's doing the rental. But yeah, that would've been. And I agree. Like my, I got my first dog, that's my own first dog, dog while I was still in college.

Nora Burns: And I agree. I, it was a lot I had, but I, she came, she lived for another 15 and a half years. She was an abused dog that I had taken in. But I had to make a lot of decisions as a young adult that took into consideration the dog. And a lot of 20 somethings just are not in a position to do that or willing to do that.

Nora Burns: And my sister. Gave up two pet bunnies. Right. She got two bunnies in college. And I was like, that is, you did not consider the lifespan of a bunny and yeah, had to go find another home for the bunnies. So yeah. 

Amy Castro: Yes, that's a challenge. 

Nora Burns:  Challenge for foster and for emergency foster.

 Nora Burns: Right. Like, we need, because sometimes the foster, and you might be getting to this too, I apologize how I'm skipping ahead on you, if you want to foster. When a long-term foster has something come up that they do need to leave, if they don't have a network of people that are trustworthy, that they can in, in fact, have come to their house, to watch all of those, those animals for a day or two, to have an emergency foster that can take in for one or two nights if a long-term foster has a family emergency or something going on.

Nora Burns: That's huge and it takes a huge, it gives them a heartbeat in their house for the weekend or for a couple nights and it helps them a I'm 

Amy Castro:  I’m going to steal that line too. Can I use that for our advertise heartbeat in your house? 

Nora Burns: I love that big fan of having another heartbeat in the house, as a single person.

 Nora Burns: I, my other heartbeat is always, the four-legged version. 

Amy Castro: Yeah. No, that's great. That's great. That's probably the best roommate you can have, right?  You know, they 

 Nora Burns: You know they do as puppies sometimes pee on some things, but you know, 

 Amy Castro: yeah, it happens. There are some people, you could have human, two leggers that you could have in your house could do worse than that, you know?

Amy Castro: So, that's a really good point that I wanted to make, in this podcast as well. Is that, and, and we're going to talk later on about investigating the rescue, because you mentioned doing your research and that’s super important. But I think when sometimes when people think about fostering and maybe in some people's experiences, because I've heard some horror, horror, if you can call it a horror story.

Amy Castro: But somebody that said that maybe they committed to fostering for two weeks and then it turns out the animal has a medical issue, can't get transported to another state like they were going to do. And now I've got this animal for six months because nobody in the organization has space to take it back.

Amy Castro:  That can be a challenge. I mean, we, we don't do that at Starlight. We always make sure that there's a space available for something to come back if it needs to, and we try to negotiate. What are you willing, if you can do a week and then we can find somebody else for a week that's act for some animals.

Amy Castro: That's actually good socialization to move around a little bit. It depends. It depends on the animal. Obviously Gigi. Really depends on, we appreciate having constant attention. She's barking outside my door. 

Nora Burns: Haha. Gigi's adorable. 

 Amy Castro: She's a little toot. Four pounds of toot. So, before we get into the rewards, because obviously we want to focus on the positive, but I think it's also very important to, especially as an experienced foster, and I'll chime in as well, that there are challenges in fostering, even if you have the best organization backing you up.

Amy Castro: So in your experience, what were some of the things that you faced that made fostering a little bit hard for you? 

Nora Burns: Well the biggest thing that made fostering hard for me is I had the unfortunate and rare circumstance where I had a puppy with Parvo. So it's really important as a foster, that foster organizations educate fosters on some things about taking care of puppies that are new that you don't know yet if they have any health issues.

Nora Burns: Right, because often, depending upon where they're coming from, if they're coming from an overcrowded shelter, they're coming from the street. If they're coming from a puppy mill that has forfeited them, right? All of these different situations, they can have different health issues and so thankfully by the time I got the puppy with Parvo, I knew to limit the areas of my home that new puppies go into.

Nora Burns: Because if you have a foster who's the first time foster and they've got puppies and they let them run in the yard and they run in the front yard and in the backyard and in all over the house, and then you find out two days in that they have Parvo, that Parvo has now spread to all of those different areas and you're going to spend the next 20 years cleaning.

Nora Burns: So, yeah, well, maybe not 20 years, but definitely year. Yeah. Because powerful can live on solid surfaces and organic surfaces for over a year. So it's really important to contain. So I'm thankful that by the time that happened, I was an experienced foster, and I always had a puppy, like really my living room gets forfeited to the fosters, right?

 Nora Burns: Like, so I build this extensive puppy palace as I refer to it in the main living. And I have tarps down on the floor so that there's a protective layer, should there be any illness and that kind of a thing. And then they're only allowed in the backyard, which is a very small, contained area. I have a townhouse. And, but the hardest part was I had a puppy with Parvo.  So it, they came from a shelter actually in Amarillo, and there were three puppies. It started with two. I committed to two puppies. I saw the picture. The foster organization I work with had posted a picture to our foster group and said, I'd like to bail these two out, is anybody in a position to take them?

Nora Burns: And one of them, their ears just went sideways, like Yoda. And I was like, I am taking them and that dog's name will be Yoda. 

Amy Castro: I remember those dogs. 

Nora Burns: They were great dogs and they and then a couple days later, the woman who runs this particular foster sent me a picture and said, turns out there's a sister. And it was a picture, whoever had forfeited these dogs to the shelter came and forfeited a third dog and said they thought they could get some money for her, but they couldn't. And, she was a sibling of the other two. And I was like, yes, of course. We're bringing all three of them. And the first, when they first arrived, everybody was playing, everybody was eating, everybody was doing really great.

Nora Burns: And then within the first 24 hours, I noticed Yoda, had already decided on a favorite toy. There's this little pig toy, and he had already chosen this favorite toy, and if one of the other puppies grabbed it, he would go and take it back from them. And then he did it. They played with it right in front of.

Nora Burns: And he didn't move and he was just laying and his eyes had changed. And I messaged and I'm like, this dog's in trouble. Like we've got to get this dog to a vet. Something's going on. And so we took him immediately to the vet who Parvo tested and said he's positive for Parvo. It was, I had had that dog in my care for less than 24 hours and I was falling as I handed him over to the vet tech and being like 

Amy Castro: I think that's when we first started getting know, getting to know each other really. It was when, because I remember, I don't know if I reached out to you or if you reached out to me, but it was right when you were dealing with that Parvo thing and I thought, oh my gosh, this poor woman, she was, I mean, you were so super excited about getting these puppies and posting all their pictures. And then it's like, oh my gosh. And I remember thinking, this poor lady's never going to do this again after this puppy. But it didn't deter you though. 

Nora Burns: It did not deter me. And he was, but he was so sick and he spent two or three days in the hospital. And then it was so interesting because they're like, okay, when he comes home and I had all these questions about Parvo because I didn't know I've always had vaccinated dogs. I've never had to deal with an active Parvo infestation. I've never realized before then exactly how contagious it is and so I was looking up all the guidelines to make sure I didn't spread it into my community and then, but they said, oh, well you can keep them separated, and then he has to stay longer because Parvo takes 30 days to get fully out of the system.

Nora Burns: And I was like, I just don't have that big of a house. Right? Like, like trying to keep these puppies separated. And I had built, I had tried, I built like this big maze. I mean, it looked like the Hunger Games in my house. And the other two puppies, who were at the time, Yattle and R2, we had a little theme with the Star Wars thing happening there.

Nora Burns: We had R2 and Yattle and they,Yattle would not be kept away from Yoda. Like, she escaped from her area to break into, and I was like, this isn't going to work. They said, then just keep all three of them for more than 30 days. And I'm like, done. Right? 

Amy Castro: So much easier. 

Nora Burns: It was so much easier.

Nora Burns: And it happened at a time, it was still, it was still the, 2021, right? I was presenting and doing keynotes and training from my downstairs video space, not from conference rooms, it worked. It was over the holidays, so things were normally slow anyhow, so it totally worked, but it was heartbreaking to watch that really sick puppy.

Nora Burns: It was really heartbreaking. Its watch a little sick puppy, but he is thriving and we have done get togethers. One of the things with my fosters is my fosters are always welcome to come back to my home. Right? So, and I've always said like I get dibs on pet sitting and, if any of them, none of the pets that I had adopted out, have come back, but I said if any of them were to ever come back, I think they would just be part of my pack. Yoda is hysterical. He's got the best home. He's so happy. He's got a sibling. He runs around and plays with, they send me videos regularly. So he's thriving as is his two siblings, as are his two siblings.

Amy Castro: When we do our foster orientations, our volunteer orientations, I mean, we do talk about the potential for illness. I mean, we do the best that we can not to obviously take an animal that we know is ill or if it is, ill, we tell you what it is and  especially for people that don't have pets, it's not as big of an issue.

Amy Castro: But, we don't intentionally put an ill animal, but you just never know when something's going to crop up.  So anytime you bring an animal into your home that's, or maybe too young for vaccinations, or it's a day late and a dollar short, or whatever it might be there are risks that you take not only for your pets whether they're vaccinated or not, although obviously, I mean, we've made sure everybody around here gets vaccinated. You do take a risk even when we've got animals. For example, one of our scourges in the cat world, and maybe less so in the dog world, although it does happen, is ringworm, and ringworm can take 21 days to show up, so, we can never guarantee that somebody's not going to be exposed, but like you did, which was smart. If you set up your home in the proper way, and don't just come home and throw that kitten on the floor and let it free roam all over your house and rub it all over your pets.

Amy Castro: I mean, you really, and we tell people, you know, isolate them, keep them in a small space, things like that. So make sure you listen to your foster guidance because, that's just going to improve your chances of success. You know, the other thing is behavior. We don't know the behavior of some of these animals.

Amy Castro: I'm never would willing, and most of the time what we'll do here at Starlight Outreach and Rescue is if it's something where it's questionable or it's, let's say it's an adult dog, just for argument's sake. We're going to keep it here for a little bit. I mean, I've done my animal behavior certification for shelter animals.

Amy Castro: We'll observe the behavior for a while first before we say, okay, here's what you're getting. But again, it's always caution not introducing them to your dogs immediately. Not letting little kids come up and just grab them around the neck. I mean, some of it's common sense, but it is a, a learning process.

Amy Castro: So you, you do need to do your homework on animal behavior, which is another thing that we do is before anybody's allowed to volunteer with us, they go through an animal behavior training program that gets them familiar with some of that behavior. So there definitely are challenges.

Amy Castro: Anything else that you would share that somebody would, you might say, okay, you might want to think about this when you foster, because it's not all cuddling puppies and kittens.

Nora Burns: It’s not all cuddling puppies and kittens. There are runs to the vet. There are helping them recuperate from being spayed or neutered, which because we spay or neuter before they go out into the world. And so you are doing some, helping them through recuperation and all of that. But, there is a lot, there is juggling to like different foods and all of that. But the thing is and the other, the other part, at least for me, one of the fosters said, oh my God.

Nora Burns: Uh, and posted on our Facebook or shared Facebook group, like, oh, this one was really hard. I balled while I let this one go. I ball when I let them all go. Like a dog that has been in my house that I've cared for and loved on, and made sure was healthy and appropriately ready to go out into a home I am. I will cry every time, so I know the day that I hand them off.

Nora Burns: Even though I have interviewed the person who's going to adopt them, I have watched them interact with the dog, every single dog that I had a role in placing is in the perfect home for them. It's this mastery when it all comes together and you have found the perfect home. So even though I know that, and even though I know that I'm going to see that dog again, because we're going to have play dates in the future and we're going to exchange information.

Nora Burns: It's just hard. It's just hard.  Even though it's going to make my, my home life easier when I hand them off, right? And I now get to reclaim my living room for a bit until the next….. But it is always hard. And there's some that are harder than others, like the ones that you're like, I am really tempted to adopt this dog. But as a single woman, I feel like three dogs might be too many. 

Amy Castro: It’s better than being a crazy cat lady.

Nora Burns: Right? Crazy dog lady. So, but I do think, I think that's just part of, the emotional response I have for animals. But I have, I've kept in touch with all of them. I know that they're all thriving and it, it's finding the right home is, magic. 

Amy Castro: Yeah. That's a good point because that is a real challenge. And I know I hear it so much. I don't know how I would let them go. I don't know how I would let them go. And I think for me, maybe because I don't know how I stopped counting it like, 2000 and something fosters.

Nora Burns: That’s amazing.

Amy Castro: I mean, we've got, we've got 300 or so that come through our house every year and then yeah, they may go to a foster, but they always kind of start here. And the first three kittens, which were named after Alvin and the Chipmunks. There was Alvin, Theodore and Simon.

Amy Castro: And those were hard. Those were hard to let go, because we had them for a decent long while. And, but as time has gone on, it does get easier. And I think I just, I don't, I love on them, as you saw me with Gigi. I mean, and we, and we actually may be keeping Gigi, so we might be a foster fail on that, but, and sometimes it's just telling, I used to tell my husband I'm going to keep this one, and he learned not to say no, you're not, because he knew I wasn't really going to keep him, but I like to feel like I had that possibility, so yeah, I mean,  it's, sometimes it's tears and sometimes I tell people, just don't think about it as my baby. I'll say just, tell your kids you're watching this dog for Amy, for two weeks while she goes on vacation. Or you're watching these kittens for two weeks for Amy while she goes on vacation and so that they realize it's not theirs, it's somebody else's.  So there's lots of different ways that you can kind of get past it. And I think the bottom line is you just do need to get past it.

Amy Castro: By allowing our fear of a broken heart over giving up this puppy or cat, we are in, in a sense, condemning some to either life on the streets or being euthanized in a shelter or whatever, you know? And so you've got to kind of balance that out a little bit. But I do understand it's not for everybody, you know?

Nora Burns: Well, I have a high level of empathy and I am, so, yeah. So I also understand that I'm going to respond very differently. But I also think that would be like saying, I never want to fall in love because I don't want a broken heart. Right? Like, why would I give up the high? Right?

Nora Burns: Like, why would I give up the high?  And especially when it is, really is. It's a temporary. I know I'm going to be that day and I know what I'm going to transition that day as they head off, but I know that the next day, I'll feel better that they're in their home and they're getting settled in, and I'll see pictures of them with their new family and all of that.

Nora Burns: But I also think, to your point, I shift my thinking to I'm dog sitting, right? Like, I'm taking care of this dog for their next path. I am the transportation along homes. And the moment that I find the right family for them, I will ask the family if they've come up with a new name for the dog.

Nora Burns: Some, Yoda kept his name because it just, it's so fit. Yattle became Cindy Lou Who, and so the moment if they share a name with me, if they know a name, I will start referring to the dog by that name, right? And I start transitioning me to the dog's name. And that, A: helps the dog, but it also helps me with the release to pass the dog along. And it is, if you start thinking about it as dog sitting, I'm watching this pet, I'm caring for somebody else's animal along the path. It definitely helps you kind of switch that. But there's just so many highs that offset those lows that there, I wouldn't undo any of it for any of it.

Nora Burns: And like during COVID was such a great example. Like I would, and I think you participated in some of these. I'd have the puppies. I did this when my Whiskey girl and her sister were here. They're the first two puppies that came into the house at lunch. I would set up my Zoom and, I would post to my personal Facebook page how to access the Zoom.

Nora Burns: And I just put my camera and my computer so that the camera was facing the puppies. And I was like, have a lunch break with the puppies. Right. And I go have my lunch while my friends and family watch the puppies play, right? So it, you can add joy to other people's lives. And then I had people who as I say, fostered from afar. The foster that I ended up working with didn't have a lot of financial, resource. Like most fosters. There were things that I wanted the puppies to have that they couldn't, they wouldn't be able to pay for, and I'm not working at the time. So what ended up happening is my friend said, what do the puppies need?

Nora Burns: And I started Amazon wish list and they would, I would do like, here's the reveal. We got a package today from Ava, and let's remember it up with the puppies would open it up to find a dog toy that they got, and then those toys went with them to their new homes. Right. So that they had, a continuation there. They were like, I can't foster, I'm in a condo that doesn't allow pets, or I'm, you know, whatever. And I'd be like, they fostered from afar. They, they sent resources in to help support these puppies and they got attached to the puppies, from afar. And so we still do some updates that way.

Amy Castro: That's great. So, what would you say are the rewards? Like what have you gained, other than cleaning up puppy pee and playing with puppies like how do you feel it's impacted you in your life being a foster? 

Nora Burns: I absolutely think it was the key to my mental health during the pandemic.

Nora Burns: I had responsibilities, right? I live by myself. My clients were, postponing conferences and events, and it could have gone dark really fast. And so it really brought a lot of joy to my life and responsibility, right? Like, you don't get to sleep in when there are three puppies in your living room, right?

Amy Castro: Right. Or if you do to your own, it's to your own peril.

Nora Burns: It’s a detriment, right? Like, you've made a bad choice. You've just made a bad choice. So and you just, I just find it very difficult to, I find it very difficult to not see the joy in life when you're holding a puppy and the puppy is just, all over you and just so excited to explore and learn new things and, the responsibility to help them with their development and help them grow was just really helpful to me.

Nora Burns: The other is the people that I met, so I think. Fellow fosters other people who foster. So like some of my best friends right now are friendships that I formed during COVID because of fostering. In the midst of the pandemic era, a lot of you weren't meeting a lot of new people except I was. I was meeting people not only because of my buy nothing community, whole another topic, but also cause of the foster community and my friend Lois.

Nora Burns: And her dog. I just watched her dog for a couple weeks while they were in Mexico, and then she watched my dog while I was traveling to a conference in Texas. 

Amy Castro: And think of the money you save doing that too. People, if you need an incentive to get to that foster network, get a foster network.

Amy Castro: Boarding fees, pet sitters. Holy moly. 

Nora Burns: Right. And we just swap. We just swap. Her dog and mine get along beautifully. They para play. They're fantastic. And I met her because on the foster network early on, I said, I don't have a pen. I don't have like a good setup to block them in my living room.

 Nora Burns: And she couldn't foster at the time because her dog had just been sick. So she's like, I have one. Come pick it up. Right. And so we met then, and then we've just stayed in touch. And here we are three years later. And I, well, we're having dinner in two weeks, right? Like, and she's just this amazing human being who my path would not have crossed with outside of being part of this foster, this foster group.

Nora Burns: The same is true for Cindy Lou, who's human. So Cindy Lou, who, who was Yado, who was the hardest dog for me to find the right home for because she was, I had a very, I kind of write up a profile of the dogs as I'm getting to know them. Like I've had dogs that would do really well as only dogs, and I've had dogs that it's clear that they need a playmate.

Nora Burns: And dogs that clearly will do really well with kids and, and dogs that would really do well with adults and active lifestyle versus not. Like I have the laziest dog on the planet. If somebody was a runner and wanted to go run with a dog, this would not have been a good fit. Right. Like, she doesn't even. She like, lays down halfway through a walk. So, finding the right pair. And Cindy Lou had a very, I had a very specific profile in mind with, Cindy Lou. And then I had interviewed like 10 people. This dog went on more blind dates than I've in the last year. And there was always just something not quite the right fit.

Nora Burns: And then I met Curiel. And Curiel and Cindy Lou, like, I handed her to Curiel and watched how they interacted and I was like, oh, for the love, this is her human. We've been looking for you. They bonded immediately. Now, six months after, six months after they, I said, I will not see the dog that I fostered for at least six months because they've bonded so closely to me.

Nora Burns: I would need them to bond with their real human.  And not think that they're coming back to me. I don't want to confuse the dog. And so it'd been six or eight months and we got back together. And not only is she the perfect human for Cindy Lu, who, she and I have become very close friends.

Nora Burns: That's, and so our dogs are best friends because my dog and her and Yaddo at the time, Cindy Lu, who had bonded and I was like, oh, it's going to be very hard for them to not see each other. They, have a better social life than I do. They’re upstairs right now. The two of them are playing right now upstairs in my house

Amy Castro:  I know, you do more, more dog play dates than anybody I know. It's so funny. 

Nora Burns: And it's all, and all the fosters are welcome to come and have a play date. Anytime I'm home. Like just drop them off, I'll, I will gladly watch them for the day because that's great. And they know my house. So I think it's not only the joy that the animal brings you during the time, I think it's a great development of your emotional intelligence, both empathy and social responsibility.

Nora Burns: You learn a ton and I think not only the dogs that you meet and the cats in your case for cat fostering, but also the humans you meet. I met another woman who runs another nonprofit that helps provide funding for people who can't afford the surgeries that their dogs need or their cats need. One of the fosters needed some extra care and extra testing, and I was like, I don't know if we can as afford it as a rescue right now. And she's like, submit a thing, I'll take care of it. I'm on it. And so just meeting all the people who have a love for animals. 

Amy Castro: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, a lot of unique people doing, you know, very specific things. And it's interesting. I wanted to say one thing about your social responsibility comment, because I think that's so important. We live and die on donors. Don't get me wrong. I love anybody. If you want to give me $5, I love you. If you want to give me 5,000, I love you. And anything in between.

Amy Castro: Because every, literally, I mean, you can't say it enough that every penny does count and everybody penny adds up. At the same time, like for example, I was on the phone with a lady today that was looking for a place for cats that had wandered up to her house. She literally had eight cats. She already had taken in seven.

Amy Castro: They were not her cats. Okay. She took in seven. She got them all vetted at like $300 a pop, and she's living in a mobile home now. The eighth cat has wandered up and she was looking for help for that cat, and she made a comment that, that just kind of ties into the point that I want to make, is that she said that she had contacted a rescue group and she said, I'm willing to make a $200 donation if you can take this cat, and it just hit me just now when you made that comment, is that the donations as critical as they are, I can't house an animal with a $200 check. I still need that human person. So the people that say, well, I'll just write a check and that's great.

Amy Castro: Do that. If you've got the do that. But also consider the possibility of being, even again, even a short-term foster, like you said, an emergency weekend foster. A vacation foster, whatever you want to call it. Just get in touch with your local group and do whatever their training is. Get yourself on the books and you can control, that's a point that I, in kind of transitioning into this question of, how do you identify the right groups to foster with?

 Amy Castro: As you're investigating groups to work with, talk to them about your limited availability. Or what if something comes up and I have to travel for work suddenly, do you guarantee me that I can turn this animal back in within 24 hours if I need to? And if they can't, it might not be a right fit for you.

Amy Castro:  I'm not saying it's wrong because not everybody's in the position to do that, but you need to know what you're getting into upfront for sure. So when you were looking for rescues to work with, how did you identify the right group for you? Because it's not going to be the same for everybody. 

Nora Burns: It's not going to be the same for everybody. And, there were several groups that I looked at and applied to and then wanted to talk to and, and the one that I selected was the one that I thought did the best job of vetting me. So they, at the time they were still doing home visits. Then we changed it to doing Zoom home visits. But they came to my house, they walked, they watched me with my pet.

Nora Burns: They checked everything in my house to make sure that I wasn't like cage fighting pugs or something, right? They made sure that my home did not show any signs of animals that had not been cared for. Right. They made sure that when I told them I had a secured backyard that I did right. All of the things they, came through and did. Now, ultimately they had to, during COVID, change those to Zoom because I did some of those for them. But they checked my references, they checked, they called my vet to make sure that what I had told them about the care of my animals was true. So for me it was important that the organization was selecting solid fosters.

Nora Burns: I do a lot of work on hiring and designing hiring processes. So when somebody, so when somebody, I think it's really an important step, and so for me, that told a story about how thorough they would be with their, with the care of their animals. So that was a key consideration. It was also the timing for me because for me, I needed an organization that was willing to talk to me more quickly because I was like, oh my gosh, I need my silver lining and I need to find it like fast.

Nora Burns: And even though they didn't do the home check for like a week after, they let me know what the process was. And I, they were in touch with me, just like with the hiring process. I need to know where I am and that you haven't forgotten about me. So that for me, I also like the fact that they had a foster Facebook group so I could ask questions of other fosters.

Nora Burns: And then now they've added, they do new foster orientations via Zoom, which I really like. There's others that I had talked to that I was, I felt a little like they were just going to throw an animal at me and that didn't feel as good. So, yeah, I think there's some things to check out and I think there's some valid questions about, like, now I have to be really specific and the one that I've been fostering through is not a long-term solution for me because they don't have an emergency backup. So I actually need to change fostering organizations because now that I'm back to working, like last week I booked something for March 15th, right? Like I had no idea that was coming up and now I'm going to be out of town. That's quick for two days.

Nora Burns: And that's a really short term thing for somebody in my business, but I can't afford to say no to that financially because I'm caring for an animal and I always have multiple backups from my pets, so I just need to make sure that somebody that the rescue has approved to watch that dog on short notice and the rescue I've been working with does, I mean, one friend I know from the rescue took in a cat and they didn't have a plan for what happens if the cat doesn't get adopted and now she just has another cat. And she's like, Mama just stayed. She just stayed. Mama cat. Yeah.

Nora Burns: So wanting to make sure that you have the exit strategy or for whatever reason the dog or cat doesn't get along in your household. I do think it is critically important for dogs and cats that are being adopted to have had time in a home because you just learned so much about the behaviors. In a home that you would never have learned in a shelter about how they interact, what some behavioral things are to work with.

Nora Burns: I just think it's critically important and even if people can, can do it, they're like, oh, I'm a teacher and I'm, my calendar is crazy for, nine months out of the year. Well, there's, if you can get some summer months in there and, take care of an animal for even a week or two along the way. It is just, it saves a, it saves an animal's life and it's going to change yours for the better. 

Amy Castro: Yeah, definitely excellent points that you made there. So you want an organization, obviously that's going to communicate effectively, that's going to do its due diligence. Because like for us, we don't go and do a home visit for a regular volunteer, and I don't even, I don't particularly like to call it a home visit because personally, and this is just Amy Castro, I bristle if somebody wants to, like, really? You think I'm not, like, I, that's just my own, my own mental block to that. But I do, if I am going to put a foster in a home, if it's not somebody that I've has fostered before, after they've gone through the vetting process on, on paper and, through a conversation, I will deliver the animal, especially if it's a dog, to make sure because people's concept of a secure fence and my concept of a secure fence only because my Chihuahua goes out with a collar on with, it's probably about a foot long dowel attached to it because even though I think my fence is secure, somehow she's got a spot somewhere and granted, we're on seven acres, so don't hold it against me, but the two acre area, that's fenced. She's got somewhere she's getting out because I found her in my neighbor's yard. And so now she goes out with a dowel on top of her collar. She looks like a little, cross running out there with a little thing.

Amy Castro: She's so tiny. Yeah, she's just so tiny I shamed her with, with one of those too. So yeah, so communication and then proper, proper vetting and making sure it's not even necessarily about you as a person. It's making sure that I'm setting you up for success.

Amy Castro: And that's the way I look at it. And then I think for me, one of the things that I think we do well with Starlight, we may not, the communication gets tricky, so we do rely sometimes on fosters if you need something, let me know. But we provide everything. In that situation, you need a pen, you let me know.

Amy Castro: If I don't have it at my house and can't drop it off today, I'll have Amazon drop it there the next day because we do get such great financial support. And whether you expect that or you don't. I mean, some of my fosters and volunteers, they don't want the rescue to pay for anything and that's great, but at the same time, I know when I first started fostering for my local shelter and they didn't pay for anything, I realized that first year, I think I'd spent like $3,500 on stray animals.

Amy Castro: And that's a lot of money, you know? So if you've got a rescue that can, at minimum, number one, a rescue that can provide that, or that they're a 501 (c) (3) and you can write those expenses off, I mean that's something at least to, to consider. I think also doing some background on the organization, like are they a legitimate nonprofit organization?

Amy Castro: Where do their funds go? You know, there are, and of course none of them are coming to me. Off the top of my head. But there are organizations out there that rate, and I'll put it in the show notes, that rate nonprofits and nonprofits are required to reveal where their money goes.

Amy Castro: Some are nonprofit and all volunteer, and a hundred percent of money goes to animals. Some are nonprofit and people take a salary. I don't care one way or the other, as long as it, as long as you know where your money is going as a donor and you know where your support is coming from as a volunteer.

Amy Castro: So, it's just what kind of organization do you want to be affiliated with, I think is another big part of it. And I think honesty is the other big one. And which ties back to the issue of communication, but, I believe in being really honest about an animal's behavior with adopters. But also with fosters too, if something's not used in the litter box, you need to let them know, it's not fair to palm that off on somebody else.

Amy Castro: And I've seen that happen where somebody gets something home and there's a significant behavior issue that was not revealed, but was known. Or a dangerous issue that was not revealed and was known. And that's a good way to run fosters away for sure. So do your due diligences in picking your organizations you want to be affiliated with for sure.

 Nora Burns: Yeah, I agree. And it is important on any nonprofit giving to do that due diligence and find out where the funds are, how many of, how much of the funds are actually going to the cause itself versus to administrative kind of expenses. And I do think to that end, I also think on the other hand, it's important to be really communicative with potential adopters when you are a foster, you know?

Nora Burns: Like I said, Cindy Lou. Cindy Lou is adorable and had a lot of interest. And I would share with people why I thought she wasn't the right fit for them, right? Like, and try to coach. I think a lot of times we get hung up in the adorable face or in a particular breed. I've had people , I have doodles, they're rescue doodles. But doodle is a whole, there's a whole subculture of people who are crazy about doodles and who are surprised that I have rescue doodles, right? Instead of, like $4,000. 

Amy Castro: This is just tough. Tough. They're more than that friend. You haven't looked at prices in a while? 

Nora Burns: I haven’t looked at the prices for a while, but people who are then like, oh, they've got this story in their head about what this breed is like an it's genetics. There's so many genetics involved. And a doodle is a mutt. I love my doodles, I love them, love them, love them. But they are a purposeful mutt.

Nora Burns: And yeah, they're going to get some from this line and some from that line. And you don't know that they're not going to shed and you don't know that they're right. Like my mine have both shed and or 

Amy Castro: that they're hypoallergenic or all the other myths. That's a myth. Well, the myth, that's a myth. It's interesting before this podcast airs, and I won't, I don't know how many weeks back, but you do you know Sandy Weaver who's another NSA speaker. So I had Sandy on the podcast. And she's amazing. You know, she's, if you haven't listened to that podcast episode, folks, you need to go back and listen to that because we talk about 

Amy Castro: purebred dogs. We talk about the doodle craze, we talk about the genetics and how that, because she's a show judge. She's been a breeder. She knows it all. We got into a lot of that. And you're, you're echoing some of the key points that we made there. And because it's so important, you're not necessarily getting the best of both worlds. And so you're right. I think there's a misconception. Especially because, and this is another thing that's come up a couple time in the podcast, is that as rescue groups we could go out there and we could probably label, although some of the software systems that we use to advertise pets makes it tricky.

 Amy Castro: You know, we could label something as, an American shelter dog, I mean, or a domestic mixed dog, mixed cat, or whatever it is. I mean, you could leave a generic, but the problem is, is that people don't search for American mixed dog. They search for golden retriever, they search for Golden Doodle Labradoodle, poodle doodle, whatever it is, and that's what's going to show up on their, up, on their search list. And so you're incentivized to try to guesstimate what you think it might be. Although, I always make it super clear to everybody, we have no way of knowing.  We have DNA tested, like you said with City Lou. But it’s super expensive to do that.

Nora Burns: But there’s like a hundred dollar minimum. Cindy Lou and her two brothers, I swear if you look at the three of them as puppies, you're like, this has got. I mean, and I didn't know until fostering. Females, female dogs can give birth to a litter of puppies from two fathers. I didn't know that. And there's a really good chance that Cindy Lou has a different father than her two siblings.

Nora Burns: When we look at the three of them together, you're like, there's so much Corgi that shows up. They look like corgis as puppies. Corgis and terriers is what they look like, which is what we shared. We're like, we're guessing. We're guessing that their Corgi terrier mixes, we have no way of knowing. We don't, we haven't seen them, whatever.

Nora Burns: So when Cindy Lou after, and we told them that, right? And Cindy Lou's human has had corgis and terriers before. So I thought, great. You know, both of these breeds, right? Whatever is going to show up. And then we run, Cindy Lou’s after she was adopted, we ran the test and it was like 38% Chihuahua. So now we just refer to her as the Chihuahua in charge.

Nora Burns: And I was like, oh yeah, that's why we see it now. Now that I see it, and there's no Corgi in there. There's some terrier in there, but no Corgi in there at all. 

Amy Castro: The point that you were making was that people will come looking for a particular thing. And you know, because they have this image in their head of what this animal might be or what this breed might be to them or it's the animal's appearance or whatever it might be.

Amy Castro: And, it may or may not be true. And so the fosters are probably the best people that really know whether this animal is going to be a best fit. I will say for our organization, obviously if I've got somebody fostering in their home and they are willing to have, because it's basically a stranger coming to your house, you know? And so some people are not comfortable with that. So we have the luxury of having the rescue ranch. So a foster can always bring their animal back here to do meet and greets. And we will have our dog building cross fingers. If I can come up with the money. Fundraiser. Actually we're  starting it come Heck or high water, but, it's starting in about two weeks.

Amy Castro: But, we have got a couple of neutral locations or safer locations than having strangers come to the person's house. The other thing is I also will, as much as we take into consideration the foster's input, at the same time, we always tell fosters that in the end it's going to be the decision of the organization, who the animal goes with.

Amy Castro: And, if it's a no, I don't like to necessarily put my fosters in the position of being the ones to have to say that. So yeah, I will be the bad guy and let them know, that it's not a fit or, you know, the animal found a better fit. I mean, we try to be as nice as possible, but we want the animal to stay put. And if it's not going to be a good fit and we're human beings, maybe we're wrong, maybe we've completely misjudged the situation and it would've worked out fine. But we have to make the best decision that we can make with the information that we have at hand at that moment in time.

 Amy Castro: And that's, and that's the best that we can do. So that's another thing to take into consideration when you're thinking about fostering, is how involved will you be able to be in the selections screening decision making of where that animal goes? Because I've had some fosters in the past that have been fantastic, fosters, but their level of what is good, what is a good enough, like there's nobody that would be good enough, including themselves. And so, I mean, at some point you also have to give people some grace. Not everybody's going to be perfect. You want somebody that's going to be good, safe, loving. There isn't anybody that's perfect out there.

Amy Castro: I mean, it might be perfect for that pet, but yeah, you have to have some flexibility, I think, to a certain degree as well. Otherwise, you'll never adopt anything out. And that's why I see that with rescues that make it either so difficult with the amount of hoops that people have to jump through.

Amy Castro: Now I'm going off on a tangent, stopping that tangent. I'm going to cut that off. So what would you tell somebody? So this is our final. We're our final plea for fosters. What would you tell somebody who has listened to what we've said so far and, God love 'em. If they're on board, call us. We'll get you hooked up.

Amy Castro: If you can't find an organization in your area, contact me. And I will gladly, do some research, reach out to my network and help you at least hone in on a couple of organizations to look at. Of course, we'd love the people in the Houston area to foster for us at Starlight Outreach and Rescue. So please, please, please. But if somebody was on the fence after hearing all of this and it's like, well, I'm still not sure, what could you do to shove them over to the good side with the rest of us, Nora?

Nora Burns: Well, I do think people in the Houston area are very lucky because you are in that area for them to sign up as fosters.

Nora Burns: And if I were in the Houston area, I would be signed up with Starlight to foster, because I do think you give an incredible amount of support, much more than a lot of rescues do for people who are fostering in terms of not only offsetting the financial cost by providing some pens and those types of things, but also by having a backup system available.

Nora Burns: So for me, looking for an opportunity where I really think it's having another heartbeat in your house. If you don't currently have an animal in your home and you're considering adopting, I think it's a really good way to see if your home is ready. And if you are ready for a dog or cat. And you see the responsibility. And there is a lot of responsibility when you're caring for another heartbeat. So I do think that that's a great option. I do think that if you've got anywhere near a little bit of space, right? I don't have a huge house, but I've had as many as three fosters in here, plus my dogs. And at one point there were two of my dogs and three fosters. But they’re puppies.

Amy Castro: And you don't have to have a huge yard either. That's another thing that people, yeah, most fosters are not, it's a temporary situation. They don't need seven acres to run on for the two weeks you’re going to have them.  

 Nora Burns: You don’t need seven acres. I've got a very small space, but what I do have is a lot of love to give. So I think if you have the capacity for love, which hopefully is everybody who's listening to this, you have the capacity for love and to care. It really is a matter of saving the life of an animal. We have had, within the organization that I volunteer with, it is heartbreaking when we have to turn down, tagging an animal to come out, meaning we're going to tell the shelter we're committing to taking that animal because we don't have enough fosters for that particular month. It is heartbreaking. When, if, and we have had animals, I just look at my own animal, my pet, could not have survived if not, hadn't gotten out.

Nora Burns: And I just think, what a waste of an amazing, amazing heartbeat that would've been. And she's a volunteer. We visit hospitals and nursing homes. She's a blood drive volunteer for other animals, right? Like she has helped the lives of others and it wouldn't have, and she couldn't do that if I hadn't helped her life along.

Nora Burns: And so all we need is to give those animals a chance. Be it for even two weeks, right? Or for a couple months and signing up to foster and to get that experience. And if you have kids, what a great example this is of social involvement and community support. This is for your kids and developing 

Amy Castro: And seeing if your kids are ready for the responsibility of a pet. Because I hear that a lot. It's like, we want our kids to grow up with a pet. We want our kids to be responsible. And I'm thinking, yeah, good luck with that. Well, you'll find out. 

Nora Burns: You’ll find out if you foster who's really ready. Who's really ready. But I just think it's such a great example that you're setting while your kids are developing those, those values, at those early ages. So I am a huge advocate for fostering and I hope that that if especially, if you're in the Houston area, that you'll reach out to Amy and see what you can do about setting up to foster. It's, it is life changing and all for the better. 

Amy Castro: Yeah, most, most definitely. The point that you made about, going to the shelter, it reminded me of my most recent visit to the shelter in our county, which I won't necessarily name it, and they do the best that they can, because they're a tiny shelter with a population of like 300,000 human beings. As a rescue president, to walk down those aisles, and literally be making life and death decisions, of, I have room for this in my house? Because we don't have a lot of dog fosters, sadly. I have room for this and I think I can get my vet to hold onto this one and bye everybody else. I mean, it's heartbreaking, you know? It's, I've hardened myself to it, but it's like, and you just don't know the potential of all those little heartbeats, like you said, that you've left behind that are sadly not going to be beating, the next day because you weren't able to get them out of there.

 Amy Castro: I want to thank you so much for being here today, Nora, I could just, we could make this a two hour podcast. 

 Nora Burns: I know, I could just keep talking about animals. 

Amy Castro: We could just keep talking and talking and talking. But I really appreciate you again because I didn't want to be preaching to the choir person. Just coming from a different perspective all the way out in Colorado to talk about your experiences. I think you've given people a lot to think about, and I love your heartbeat in the home analogy, because yeah, you're going to benefit just as much as the animals will benefit, for sure. So thank you so much for being here and sharing that message for us.  For those of you who are listening, thank you again for listening to another episode of Starlight Pet Talk.

Amy Castro: If you don't do anything else this week, and I know I always say if you don't do anything else this week, hug your pets and definitely do that. But if you don't do anything else other than that this week, at least consider, make that phone call, send that email to your local shelter, your local rescue group, and just investigate the possibility of being a foster. And like Nora said, if you're in the Houston area, we would love to have you at Starlight Outreach and Rescue. We'll put our contact information in the show notes and thank you all so much for being here, and we will see and hear from you next week. Take care.

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