Transcript
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As a dog mom to several dogs of my own, as well as many foster dogs, I pretty much know which ones are good to go when going out in public and which ones either need to stay home or need a lot more work.
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Unfortunately, many pet parents don't know that their dog's not ready for prime time and maybe don't even realize the etiquette for being in public with their dog.
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So that's what we're talking about today so that you and your dog can travel out in the world and get along and get things done.
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So stay tuned.
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My guest today is Nancy Hassel.
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Nancy is the president and founder of American Pet Professionals, which is a business, networking, educational and multimedia organization for the pet industry with members from all areas of the world.
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I'm so happy to be here today.
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Thank you so much for having me, amy.
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I'm so happy to be here today.
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You know, I was so glad that when we were talking about the pet business.
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It was something that really helped me understand what it means to be a pet parent.
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I'm so glad that when we were talking about the possibility of having you on the show, that you brought up this subject today, because it happens to be a personal pet peeve of mine.
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Like I told you, before we started recording, I had a Doberman, pinscher, who was very well trained, but it was my fault, he was not really greatly dog socialized.
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So you know, there were just so many times where I either couldn't take him out in public because other people couldn't control their pets, or even just going to the vet would be a hassle, because we'd be sitting in our corner and he'd be mining his business.
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And you know people, without a control, dogs on my least favorite leash, the Flexi leash, would just cause chaos.
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And then it was always my dog's fault, because he was, he was barking, yeah, and you got the dirty look yeah, I got the dirty look and then it perpetuates the negative image of my poor dog's breed as well.
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So you know, it's definitely a two way street, I think, when it comes to this bringing our dogs out in public and being respectful.
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So what would, what would be and I know you taught classes on this to people what are some general messages about just taking your dog out amongst humans and other dogs?
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And then I want to get into some specific scenarios.
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Yeah, absolutely so.
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I did teach responsible dog ownership class.
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It was just for people as a class that came out of a knee jerk reaction of me being frustrated with seeing yet another law being passed against dogs.
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And.
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I was complaining to a friend and I said you know, would be nice if, instead of just having another law, they actually educated dog owners.
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And she's like why don't you teach a class?
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This is back in 2008.
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And I was like what?
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And then it just perpetuated from there.
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But one of the main things that I always said in every single class we had dog trainers in the class and veterinarians.
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I started the class off and we had no dogs in the class.
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It was just educating pet parents and about to be pet parents.
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We had a lot of people that came that were about to adopt the dog or thinking about adopting a dog or buying a dog or whatever they were doing.
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However, they were getting their dog.
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But, one of the main things that I always said is know your dog and know your dog's breed, even if you have a mixed breed, because a lot of the different behavioral issues you know, people thought they were behavioral issues and it was really just what the dog was bred for, right?
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Our dog keeps getting out and running away, our dog keeps doing this and I'm like, well, that's part of the dog's breed or that's part of your dog's mixed breed, and know your dog, right, don't be in denial about your own dog's personality, their behaviors, you know.
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Are they a dog that might be reactive on leash, but they're not actually, you know, it's not aggression, they just might have a reaction on a leash.
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Are they overzealous?
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Ah, so excited, you know, and jumping on everybody because everybody likes to blame the dog and like 99% of the time, it's not the dog.
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It's rare when there's an instance when it's really the dog's fault, right?
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So know your dog and know your breed or mixed breed of dog, what they were bred for.
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Know your dog's own individual personality, what their limits are if they have limits.
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So that's something that I've always said and I think you know a lot of people have never really heard that that we talked about in the class.
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They'd be like oh, I didn't think about it that way and I'm like, yes, it's nothing against you or your dog, you're here to learn, right, and I always.
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The other thing I always said in the class was no question is a stupid question or a silly question, because you are here to learn.
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We are not going to make you feel bad about stuff that you might have done incorrectly in the past or anything like that.
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We want you to learn and have the best outcome for you and your dog, or you're about to be a dog.
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So that's some of the things that we always said in the class.
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Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that I find with pet parents and we've done several episodes that have kind of hit on this issue is that too many times we focus so much on what we want.
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You know, I'd love to be able to take my dog, Guinevere, out in public and she's overall basically a good dog, but she gets so overly excited, she gets so wound up and then she just then, she just doesn't listen as well.
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And, yes, I probably should have taken her out more when she was younger.
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I didn't, you know, I didn't have her from when she was a little puppy.
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I had her when she was pretty much a year old.
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But okay, you know.
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So I either need to, you know, work on that gradual increase of getting her out and about, but yeah, or just not take her out in public but to just basically say, oh, I'm going to take her to an all day, you know, event for dogs in the park.
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It's just not a good idea for anybody involved.
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It's going to be miserable for her, it's going to be miserable for me, miserable for other people.
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Yeah, so you knew your dog.
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You knew that it wouldn't be a good situation.
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Yeah.
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Right, so so what is the?
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You know what would be some of the basic etiquette things.
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Like I said, you know about the flexi leash, you know, to me one of the things would be that your dog should be, you know, within your eyesight and knowing what it's doing, and keeping it within a certain distance from yourself because, yeah, once it gets past that, you're losing a bit of control.
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I mean, first of all, the basic etiquette is if you're out and about, if you're in a park or anywhere in a town that there's a leash requirement, get a really good six foot leash and keep your dog leash.
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I do not care how well behaved your dog is.
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My dog is super well behaved.
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He has an awesome recall.
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He's never going to be off leash where he's not allowed to be off leash and even in areas where, like at the beach, there's some a lot of beaches here on Long Island on the east end that are dog friendly.
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I put him on a 30 foot biothane leash because, like he might jump in the waves, I need to pull him out.
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You know that kind of thing.
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He has been off leash at an off leash dog beach away from dogs.
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He is super dog friendly.
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But I don't know the other dogs if they're dog friendly or not.
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So you know, leash your dog, follow the law.
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You know, every single day when I'm out walking my dog, there's a loose dog and my last dog behind me, mr Max.
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He was actually attacked by a golden retriever in a park where the dogs were supposed to be off leash and it was one of the scariest things that I went through and I had my Doberman at the time and the owners, you know, unfortunately just adopted it and had it off leash and were really far away from the dog and they just assumed the dog was friendly.
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Luckily my dog didn't get really hurt.
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He had some puncture wounds.
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But for me to then recover, to then retrain my dog it was a it took a long time because I realized a lot of times my reaction would go right down the leash and it would set him off.
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He wasn't aggressive, he was a very nervous dog.
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So leash your dog.
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I mean, like I know a lot of people hate that and a lot of people really give you a hard time.
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If you ask nicely, a lot of times I'll just stop with my dog, cody.
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Now Cody could care less about any dog, like he will ignore 99% of the dog.
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He'll say hello to dogs that we know that are dog-friendly, on leashes and stuff.
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But if I see a loose dog, now you know I just put him in a sit and then I say to them hey, can you leash your dog?
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Or you know, I just make it really obvious that my dog is in a sit, stay and I just stare at people.
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A lot of times that works, but a lot of times they just don't care, and it's that you know that part of it is really frustrating for responsible dog owners who aren't just letting their dogs run ahead of them and not paying attention, especially in parks where there's people jogging and biking and running, horses going through the trails like all kinds of things.
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I think leaching your dog is for your dog's safety, Dog forbid.
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Your dog ran up to another dog on leash that was aggressive and that dog on the leash did damage.
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You're the one that's responsible.
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Of course it depends on the state you're in, but here in New York you would be responsible.
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Yeah, and you should be, in my opinion, you're all good for being, you know, being potentially hurt or run or chase something.
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Yeah, it's just, you know.
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I know people that have really great control of their dogs and I see them off leash and I don't say anything, I don't make a fuss.
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You know, I can also spot a dog's body language from afar and be like, oh, that dog's totally fine and see if the owner has it under verbal control.
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But it's just frustrating when you're trying to go out and enjoy your walk and you feel like a loose dog or two you know, way ahead of their dog.
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It's like, oh my God put your dog on leash.
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Well, it's interesting too.
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It starts at home you reminded me of.
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You know I used to in order to get my Doberman good exercise, because even when I was thinner I couldn't run long enough or fast enough to get him really good exercise.
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So I had a bike attachment and we would ride around the neighborhood and inevitably on any given on any, any given trip.
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And I remember a neighbor two houses down had two golden retrievers and she had them out on the driveway off leash.
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You know she's screaming their names to come back and you know, she's yelling to me they're friendly, they're friendly and it's like, yeah, but I'm trying to ride my bike with my dog, who doesn't?
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want your dog charging up to us and, you know, ends up pulling the bike over, you know, breaking the bike attachment, and you know it's just like okay, now I'm around every corner.
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And then another instance which I got and I shouldn't probably even admit this on the air, but I got a little tiny bit of satisfaction out of this one is that I came around the corner and this lady was working in her front yard and her dog was in the front yard with her off leash and her kid was kind of like sitting on the dog's back.
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And I thought to myself okay, when I come around this corner, I hope that dog sits where he's supposed to sit, but if he doesn't, that kid's going to go flying.
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And sure enough, I come around the corner, the dog jumps up, the kid gets dumped on the ground.
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I mean, he didn't get hurt, it was on the grass, but it's like you know.
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And here comes a dog out in the middle of the street and it's like what if I'd been on the opposite side of the street and a car was coming?
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down.
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Oh, what if a car was coming?
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Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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So you know it starts.
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I think you're right.
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I mean, no matter how good your dog's recall and most people's dog's recall is not good at all you know it might come to them in the house if they've got a treat, but other than that it's not good.
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But you never know what situation is going to trigger them not to hear you or not to listen.
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Yeah, and a lot of times dogs are super friendly, happy, go lucky.
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And I want to preface this by saying it's nothing against Golden's.
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I love all dogs.
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Right, it could care less what kind of breed you have.
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We just happen to have certain to your own situations with those different dogs that would be Golden's.
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I love all dogs, Cody loves all dogs.
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But it's just, you know, it's just frustrating when you're being the responsible dog owner and here comes a dog running down the street or something.
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I had a neighbor not too long ago that never leashed a dog.
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Dogs were always loose.
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He would scream at them.
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It was terrible.
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It was a terrible situation.
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Thankfully he moved away, but I felt bad for the dogs.
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The dogs were nice but like people would be jogging by and they would go running up to the jogger and the jogger would be, like you know, terrified and I'm like, oh my God.
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So yeah, leash your dogs, yeah.
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You know if you're in an area that, like you're in a farm or you're in an area that there's no leash, it might be a different way of life.
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I'm talking about exuberbia, city of life that's, you know really, where there's laws that your dog should be leached.
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Yeah, well, you know, and having living on a seven acre farm, ish, you know I still get frustrated with people up and they'll literally tell me because I had a volunteer that picked up somebody's dog, thinking it was a stray and needed needed rescue, because it was wandering down the street and it's like you know the excuse is it's a farm dog.
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It's like okay, then keep your dog, farm dog on your farm, not on my farm, not pooping in my yard, not chasing my dog, not chasing my pony, you know, and so you know, even then it's a it's a respect thing, I think, and it's you know it's it's important to follow the rules.
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You had mentioned body language and I think it's really that's a really important topic.
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Can you talk to the issue of you know being able to you know read your own pets body language, but also reading the body language of the other.
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You know the other dog and people too when you're out with your dog.
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Yeah, so this is a big deal.
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I always talked about this in our classes because when I had my sweet Max, he was a nervous dog and if there was a dog 20 feet ahead on a, on a flexi or retractable leash, or just people not paying attention, I would have to move myself over to the side of the trail, put him in a sit, you know, make him pay attention to me, whatever it was, and they would not watch me or my dog's body language and they would always say my dog is friendly and I'm like he was attacked.
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And they'd be like, oh my God, anybody that is a dog parent.
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You know, we'll, we'll address the person's body language first.
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If you see somebody that is walking their dog and they do what I did and like with my old dog Max, I'd be like, I'd be like into the woods at some point and people are still be lining up.
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I'm like, no, no, no, no, like, pull your dog back.
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Watch the person's body language, as you'll see, the person will get really nervous and they're stiffing up, they're pulling their dog's leash because they know their dog might have a leash reaction.
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So you can see somebody really tense.
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Right, if they're tense, if their body language is tense if they moved over, if they crossed the street you know, I used to have to cross the street.
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Sometimes they're like putting their hand out.
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I just think that, especially now, it's even worse because we're all a lot of people are on their phones and not paying attention.
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Just the other day I was out walking and where I am there's a winter break, so there was a family walking with their very happy go lucky, beautiful, and it was a golden and a dog was awesome and the dog was just like you know, excited, and my dog very friendly.
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But the mother was not paying attention to her dog.
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She was trying to put the hood something back on her kid.
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So I just stopped to give them space to let them finish.
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She didn't even see me and then she turned around and her dog was like pulling, pulling, wiggling every part of his body.
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It was really cute and I just said, oh, he's friendly.
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I'm just you know, I don't know about your dog just giving you some space to walk by because it was a narrow trail.
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And she's like, oh sorry, and I was like you know, no, it's all right, I didn't have to stop.
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But for me to stop and give her that space, I think it's respectful because she's a mom with two young kids.
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They're out walking their dog on a beautiful day.
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I just want to give them space because I don't know if her dog is friendly, her dog is pulling, is the dog going to pull her down?
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So for me that's what I do.
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I'm always going to be more protective of my dog than anything else, right?
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And she said, you know, I asked her, was he a puppy?
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He looked like he's a puppy and she said a year and I said I could tell.
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And you know, we had a nice exchange and she went on her way and I went on my way.
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But that was a little bit different situation.
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But most people are just not paying attention.
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They're not looking at the person's body language and I think that you know if you have a reactive dog or not.
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A friendly dog like Cody.
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You know everybody that is being responsible out and about walking their dog has the right to walk their dog leashed If their dog is reactive and your dog you're not paying attention and their dog has a little bit of a barking.
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You can't get mad at that, right?
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You want to be able to respect other people out walking their dog.
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I just think pay attention to the body language.
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So that's the one thing that we would always address is like watch the people and then watch your own dog's body language.
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Right, are his hackles going up?
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Are you tense on the leash?
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Where you're so tense that the dog's like what's going on, I have to do something right.
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When I adopted Cody, he's just the like you know they say bombproof dog Like that's just always how he is.
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He's happy to go lucky.
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You take him almost everywhere respectfully and I had to learn with him not to tense up on the leash.
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But when I first got Cody there was a couple of times that I was like oh my God, I'm sorry, because you know old habits die hard.
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Like 13 years of a nervous dog is a lot to overcome.
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Then you get a happy, go lucky dog again.
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You know I'd had to pay attention to my own body language and walking my dog.
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But my dog, cody, won't react to anybody Like he'll cry, cry like little baby cries to say hi.
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He's always like that golden, he's like wigglin' and happy.
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So you know, pay attention to the person's, like their body, pay attention to their dog.
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You know, if you see a dog wagging the tail, but maybe their lip is curling and they're looking at your dog intensely, maybe don't go say hi, yeah, I don't know.
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Yeah, I think that over the top with protection with Cody, but I really could care less.
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No, I think it's better better to be.
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You know the old adage better to be safe than sorry.
00:17:51.380 --> 00:17:52.930
Exactly so.
00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:56.940
You know, watching the person's body language is well I mean the dog body language, obviously.
00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:57.622
That's huge too.
00:17:57.829 --> 00:18:08.636
But, you know, even if you're out and about and let's say you are walking in the park and there aren't other people with dogs, but watching the body language of the person that's walking, you know, coming your way, did you know?
00:18:08.636 --> 00:18:10.020
Did they look like they're trying to?
00:18:10.020 --> 00:18:20.701
Because this is another thing that I've seen is that you know, it's very obvious the person doesn't want to have contact with the other person's dog, watching that other person's body language because maybe they just don't like dogs, that they're afraid of them.
00:18:20.701 --> 00:18:30.559
So if they're moving out of your way to be disrespectful and let your dog go over to them anyway, you know and saying, oh, that's okay, my dog's friendly.
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:39.837
You know, I don't care if your dog's friendly, I'm not afraid of most dogs anyway, but I don't necessarily want your dog jumping on me or slobbering on my pants or whatever it might be.
00:18:39.837 --> 00:18:41.073
So get the hint.
00:18:41.073 --> 00:18:43.420
You know it's like keep your dog with you.
00:18:44.030 --> 00:19:13.478
I will tell you one of the things that I say to people when I can tell that they're like be lining towards us and I will say, oh, not today, we're doing some training, but your dog is beautiful or he's adorable and I just keep walking this way kind of stops them in their tracks and dismisses them, and most people are like, oh, okay, and then you could see their wheels spinning, a little like I didn't even realize that I should, you know, or sometimes I'll be like, oh, you know, you should just always ask if your dog can say hi, because, you know, I don't know if their dog is going to try to attack my dog, right?
00:19:13.478 --> 00:19:19.782
So that's kind of I try to diffuse the situation, because people can just get real nasty to each other.
00:19:19.782 --> 00:19:34.378
But yeah, that whole paying attention is just so smart and teacher kids that pay to, oh, you know, maybe their dog was attacked in the past or maybe they're really nervous, like you said, of a dog, a bigger dog coming over to their smaller dog.
00:19:34.378 --> 00:19:34.798
You know.
00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:41.076
Yeah, so so we've been talking about being out in in parks and things like that, and that makes me think about dog parks.
00:19:41.076 --> 00:19:45.320
You know I am very opposed to dog parks for a lot of different reasons.
00:19:45.320 --> 00:19:48.359
I bet I'd be curious to hear what your thoughts are about taking your dog.
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:54.416
You know, let's say you have a really good manner dog, does that mean it's a good idea to take your dog to a dog park?
00:19:55.650 --> 00:19:57.698
So I'm also not a big fan of dog parks.
00:19:57.698 --> 00:20:05.642
I know a lot of people that go and never have an issue, and I also, you know, stood there and watched dogs get into pretty big bites on the outskirts.
00:20:05.642 --> 00:20:10.976
I think it's a great place to train your dog outside the dog park.
00:20:10.976 --> 00:20:16.156
I have a video that I just did of Cody during this training, as he's sitting and all the dogs are playing in that park.
00:20:16.156 --> 00:20:17.132
They all seem to get.
00:20:17.132 --> 00:20:19.538
They all seem to be respectful of each other.
00:20:19.538 --> 00:20:27.200
The people I'm not a big fan either, just because of what we were just talking about People not knowing body language, not understanding dog body language.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:37.017
I think every dog parent about to be dog parent should take a course on dog body language behavior, If there's a book, whatever there is learn it.
00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.098
Learn it from a trainer beforehand, like what are the things I should be looking for?
00:20:41.769 --> 00:20:45.599
That was one of the trainers, rolissa from Dog U Canine Academy.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:21:02.303
She was a breeder, owner, handler and competed all over the world and her stories and her information were fascinating about what the mother dog would teach the puppies and that you know those certain things as most dog parents don't know that because maybe they haven't been there.
00:21:02.303 --> 00:21:07.480
I think any pet parent can, or dog parent could learn that and really learn a lot.
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.339
And I just think you know you can assess the situation right.
00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:24.655
There's a agility dog park next to a dog park, in a park where you can walk the trails with your dog and when there's nobody in the agility park I'll bring my dog in there to do a little quick agility and then we'll leave.
00:21:26.300 --> 00:21:49.986
But you know, it's tempting because there was a Doberman in the dog park one day and he was doing the agility and there was nobody in there and I was like, oh man, I really want to take like Cody, play with that doby, because I could just tell the doby was like perfection, right, and the guy was super nice and as I was like this close to saying, okay, I'm going to like Cody in there and play with that dog, they're going to have a blast, and he's never been in a dog park ever.
00:21:49.986 --> 00:22:01.586
And just I heard a car door shut and I looked and I see somebody being dragged by like four big dogs and like two people being dragged by four and I was like, yeah, have a nice day.
00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:03.361
I'm not even going to take a chance Now.
00:22:03.361 --> 00:22:04.906
The dogs could have just been excited.
00:22:04.906 --> 00:22:20.867
But you know, I think that the part of the problem with the dog parks is that people are not paying attention to their dogs and you'll see a smaller dog, even if it's a big dog, run and it is big dog, getting pummeled by 20 other dogs or they get that chasing factor.
00:22:20.867 --> 00:22:33.986
So I think you know, if you're a dog parent and like that's the only option maybe you live in a city and, like New York City or you want to go to the dog park go and watch the dog park first, get to know some of the people in there.
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:41.130
There might be times, if you want to go into the dog park, that there are certain dogs that are always there that get along great and there's no scuffles.
00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:42.987
I will never bring my dog to a dog park.
00:22:42.987 --> 00:22:44.486
I don't want to set him up for failure.
00:22:44.486 --> 00:22:46.184
I don't want him to get attacked.
00:22:46.184 --> 00:22:50.683
You know he's just too just would never do it, he's too, friendly.
00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:54.269
I knew a dog that got ruined by being brought to a dog park.
00:22:54.269 --> 00:22:58.868
She was the happiest dog, and after a few times of going there she was a different dog.
00:22:58.868 --> 00:23:03.826
So it's not all dogs that's going to happen to, but I just think, assess it.
00:23:03.826 --> 00:23:04.942
But yeah, I think it's.
